Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

[OklahomaWes]

I'm curious who has the oldest working system. Also please give some information about the system, like who installed it, what brand and pressure. Any problems? Thanks, Wes

[CNG Utah]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

We've had several 92 Dodge Vans with the factory dedicated system that have worked great.

We also have a 90 Chevy 1 ton dually crew cab that runs great on CNG. Unfortunately, it's an older 2400 psi system that we can't fill in Utah. We did fill it in Washington and it drove great on CNG.
The Chevy truck has an Impco system. You can see some close up pictures of it here: http://www.cngutah.com/forsale/86/main.html

[larrycng]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

Hey AFV Man, when did you convert that "hippy van" sled you have?

Larrycng

[asforme]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

Hello Wes....Do you still have the wrecked Cavalier for parts. I am in the market for CNG parts to fit 2001-2002 Cavaliers, I have 3 of them. Regards...

[ricksutahcngauto]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

I have a 1982 Chevy Shortbed 4X4. It has an Impco and a Holley Fuel Injection. Recently it was vandlized (they stole the Holley computer, alternator and radiator and one of the exhaust manifolds and other stuff) so it is dead untill I have lots of time and money. It had a 11:1 compression motor with Forged domed pistons and Fueler Heads. The engine was built by my Friend Paul Coleman of Fuelmaker. I put about 270,000 miles on that engine before parking in about 6 years ago. If it was not for the theifs it would still be running. It ran just 1 1/2 years ago! It also needs a new body per rust. Regarding running 2400 pound systems. Please guys, be careful. We are all human and can make mistakes. If the tanks are only rated for 2400 then you should not put on a 3000 pound fill nozzle. We are all idiots when we take chances. A cell phone call or some other distraction and the tanks would be easily over filled. They are also likely expired so why press your luck and also the reputation of the industry. I hope everyone is safe and that we have no accidents especially where someone get injured and it is caused by foolishness. If Cowboy wants to play I hope he never gets burned but please don't encourage others to take risks. It is not worth it! I sincerely hope no one get hurt. Thanks, Rick Walton President of Intermountain Compressed Fuels Association and the full web site will be up in a few days www.imcfa.org

[nttrainer]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

I just ran across this thread and wanted to post something appropriate. I went to the International Natural Gas Conference in Torino, Italy in September and saw the first CNG conversion. It is a Fiat that was converted by the Italian company Tartarini in 1939. I spoke with the representative of the company and he said it is still driven in parades.
* * * * TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE PSI OF THE SYSTEM * * * *
Sorry but I didn't ask the PSI of the system. I picked up some literature from the company but there was nothing about the PSI of this conversion.

[cowboy]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

what psi is the fiat?

[CNGCARS]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

Yea what psi? Cool story and pics thanks for sharing!

[Franz]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

Many years ago, I was doing some research on the history of CNG vehicles as we know it. In the very early days of CNG vehicles, the single biggest obstacle was fuel storage. Early vehicles had large bladders tied to the roof or on a tow behind trailer (these are still in use in some parts of the world!)

Prior to WWII, Germany began stockpiling oil reserves and began taking over oil and gas refineries in Southeast Europe, mainly in Ploesti, Romania. Germany has no significant refinery capability of its own. Northeast Italy obtained most of their petroleum from the same areas, and when Germany began to nationalize these oil fields for their military effort (Ploesti was one of the most heavily protected areas in Europe to help prevent Allied bombing, something which was finally overcome in 1943).

When Italy effectively lost all liquid petroleum and gasoline use for their citizenry, some entrepreneurs remembers the "Metano" powered vehicles. At that time, Germany had not yet commandeered the Natural Gas for their GTL syngas Fischer-Tropsch production, so the Metano was relatively untouched. But, the biggest problem was in storage.

On the southwest coast of Italy, a German submarine was beached when the crew deserted it. It was supposed to have been scuttled but somehow it was not sunk. Some of the Italian people began stripping it, and one of the things they found were the onboard high pressure air cylinders and compressors, and with a little ingenuity, they were reconfigured for Metano use.

When I was meeting with the Landi-Renzo people in the early 90's, they showed me a picture a car (I dont remember which one but it was a large pre-war sedan, not the one showed above) with four of these very old air cylinders mounted where the trunk would have been. These cylinders had German markings and were connected with piping to a regulator about the size of a pizza on the left front fender. It was fed to a venturi mixer mounted on top of what was the former gasoline carburetor.

It reportedly still ran. These cylinders were rated at around 2400 psig, they had to be higher in pressure than the surrounding water pressure to blow the ballast tanks in the submarine. I would guess this might qualify as one of the oldest CNG cars still in running condition.

Franz

[Curtis]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

What did your research show was the first cng vehicle produced? I read once that it was around 1913, and elsewhere that it may have been as early as the late 1800's.

[Franz]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

At some point we have to differentiate between CNG and NG powered engines. CNG denotes compressed gas storage, something that just was not widespread use before WWII.

Many early engines used coal gas or "erd-gaz" (earth gas) in the mid to late 1800's, before that, most were steam powered. The mobile internal combustion engine really didnt make it around until the late 1800's although Carnot effectively described it in the 1820's. The Otto cycle came about in the 1870's, and almost all of them used erd-gaz as a fuel. Interestingly, almost all of them were either German or Italian inventors.

Since liquid fuels were more portable, they got the nod whereas gaseous fuels seemed to be favored in stationary applications, and many still are.

Franz

[nttrainer]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

I read that the first internal combustion engine vehicle to run on natural gas was built by Etienne Lenoir in 1860. The French came up with a few inventions but I thought everything else related to transportation (from bikes to rockets) was invented by Germans (i.e. Otto, Wankel, Diesel, Messerschmitt, Von Braun). Can't think of much that the Italians contributed in the way of major breakthroughs

Here's a picture of a car from the 30's pulling his fuel along behind him in his Cox Gas Trailer. I believe Franz was referring to this in his previous posts.

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

That is CLASSIC!

[cngmike]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

I can claim a station that started operation in 1981. It started life as a 2400 psi. time fill station and know is a 3000 psi fast fill.

[Insight]

Re: Who has the Oldest working CNG System?

Google cng bladder and you will find a book describing the first CNG motor in 1860 from coal gas in France. This thread caught my eye since our International sales manager is from Mexico City. There are some public transportion buses running on natural gas stored in old intertubes in the back of the bus. A large heavy box is set on top of the tubes to provide pressure for the fuel flow to the engine. Crazy but effective. I have asked if he could get a photo next time he is home.