Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

[mohammond]

Any recommendations for someone who can do a high-quality installation of NGV tanks on an auto transport trailer?

I want to install 8-10 NGV Type IV cylinders on a 4 car wedge-type auto transport to refuel my truck. This needs to be done properly, with proper enclosures and stainless steel fixtures, etc. I have a fill hose.

I discussed this with a DOT inspector who informed me that as long as the fuel on the trailer is for the power unit pulling it I do not fall under the hazmat rules, which require placards if carrying more than 119 gallons.

I am in Texas but could have the work done in Utah, Oklahoma, or Texas.

[cnghal]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

mohammond,
I can do the install in my shop in Tucson. We may be able to work on a trade for the parts and labor as I have equipment I need picked up in Dallas and El Paso.
Do you have the tanks? If not, I have a lot of 3000psi Type III 13.7 GGE tanks for sale that expire in 2017 & 2018.
I have brackets to do a 4x2 setup that would give you 109+ GGE of storage.
Let me know.

[transportfool]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

Let me know if this happens. I would like to do a post on my blog about it. My email is [email protected] and my blog is transportfool.com

[afvman]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

mohammond et al,

NFPA-52, the installation 'bible' has one reference to trailering CNG as you described in para. 5.5.10 (of the 2002 edition). I've copied the entire section for you. I'd check the latest edition (2006), but I don't think anything's changed.

Good luck and stay safe,

afvman

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5.5 Installation of Piping.
5.5.1 Manifolds connecting fuel containers shall be fabricated
to minimize vibration and shall be installed in a protected
location or shielded to prevent damage from unsecured
objects.
5.5.2 Manifolds connecting containers or container pressure
relief devices shall be designed to vent gas from the individual
container(s) exposed to a fire so that all containers meet the
requirements of Section 4.5.
5.5.3 Apipe thread jointing material impervious to the action
of the natural gas used in the system shall be applied to all
male pipe threads prior to assembly.
5.5.4 Piping and fittings shall be clear and free from cutting
or threading burrs and scales, and the ends of all piping shall
be reamed.
5.5.5 Where necessary to prevent abrasion, fuel lines passing
through a panel shall be protected by grommets or similar
devices.
5.5.6 Fuel lines shall have the maximum practical clearance
from the engine exhaust system.
5.5.7 Fuel lines shall be mounted, braced, and supported to
minimize vibration and shall be protected against damage,
corrosion, or breakage due to strain or wear. A fuel line shall
be installed, supported, protected, and secured in such a manner
as to minimize the possibility of damage, corrosion, or
breakage due to expansion, contraction, vibration, strains, or
wear and to preclude any loosening while in operation.
5.5.8 A bend in piping or tubing shall be prohibited where
such a bend weakens the piping or tubing.
5.5.9 A joint or connection shall be located in an accessible
location.
5.5.10 Where a fuel supply container is located on a trailer, the
fuel supply line shall contain an emergency breakaway device
designed to retain CNG on both sides of the breakaway point.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

This is interesting, I had not known about the trailered fuel hazmat exception. I had toyed around with the idea of adding CNG cylinders to a boat trailer, to allow us to get at least a LITTLE more range on CNG when out on trips, but firgured it wouldn't be allowed. I had already planned on installing a breakaway fitting, as it just makes sense. Good to see the reg's actually require it.

[larrycng]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

Another suggestion, make sure there is good cage and shields around the tanks in case the trailer is hit.

If you had some of the CNG Cylinder Corp brackets (and tanks that fit them properly), they would bolt together real nice. Most of those thats are about ready to time out.

Larrycng

[jblue]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

5.5.10 Where a fuel supply container is located on a trailer, the
fuel supply line shall contain an emergency breakaway device
designed to retain CNG on both sides of the breakaway point.

Who makes a breakaway device rated for CNG?

[joemccleery]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

just put a www and a dot in front of any of these and you can get to the places that sell quick disconnects for CNG

snap-titequickdisconnects.com/products/natural_gas_vehicle_products_ng/index.html

c-global.com/Alternative_fuel.htm

Hope these help and I'll be getting a hold of each of them next week and reporting my findings. Thanks for the DOT post and the good questions. I have been looking for this stuff for days.

[larrycng]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

Trying to help move this over.
Check around for some bus cylinders; some are around 7 to 8 ft long and around about 15 inches in diameter. Dynatek, Lincoln and SCI make them and I have see some used ones on the market.

Just don't have them hooked to the vehicle while driving as per DOT

Larrycng

[joemccleery]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

hey larry, to your knowledge, if they were transported on my trailer and not connected, when I need to use the fuel in the LNG tanks, How would I get the fuel to the truck? Through a fuel pump to my Truck tanks? If so, it seems I could take a lot with me. Limited only by the number I could fit on the trailer since it seemed that DOT doesn't have a specific maximum I could carry as long as I planned to use it with my engine, Right?

[larrycng]

Re: Recommendations for quality installation of CNG tanks on a trailer?

Whao. We are getting two discussions crossed. My last comment on tanks were directed at CNG tanks mounted on a trailer that was carying something else; but were going to be used for extending the tow vehicle's range. In that particular case you would have to transfer the fuel to the tractor (towing vehicle) by equalizing pressure while the whole unit was stopped some place to remain in complance with DOT regs (as the pressure drops you know the rest of the story). You are also limited to a specific volume of gas to my understanding; and you are not transproting gas for commerical purposes; i.e. selling the gas to another for their purposes. (yes this can get a little weird). This would be the best way to go

From what I understand in your case, wanting to run LNG you would probably come under the same regulations ( volume carried and being hooked to the towing vehicle). You might want talk to your friendly DOT inspector. From what I see the problem would be in carring LNG on the trailer. Depending on how many LNG tanks and the volume of the tanks. Depending on the ambient temperature, if you would use the LNG in the tanks within 36 to 48 hours you probably wouldn't have any trouble. Longer than that you would probably start loosing LNG through boil-off (pressure relief valve blowing off) The LNG tanks will usually vent somewhere around 225 psi and then automatically reset (unlike a CNG system PRD) when at a safe level. You would have to transfer the LNG from the trailer storage to the tow vehicle's fuel tank by the appropriate liquid pump. Again, check with you local DOT inspector.

This is getting compliated. I think I'll stop this is getting out too far into left field

Larrycng