3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

[dougievoss84117]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. NEVER GET CNG ONLY
2. CHECK CNG TANKS EXPIRATION DATE
3. CHECK RECEPTACLE FOR INCOMPATIBLE OLD NGV-1 TYPE LIP

1. NEVER get CNG only! If you're going to try for CNG, get a bi-fuel so you never get stranded (especially in Las Vegas where there are NO PUBLIC STATIONS (you have to buy a card from Haycock Petroleum and find a hidden fillup station that may even be broken when you pull into town at 4:30 in the morning and have to wait for business hours)). NO TAX CREDIT IS WORTH THE HASSLE OF LAS VEGAS OR GETTING STRANDED. NEVER GET CNG ONLY!!! Also, utah cng stations may not have pressure so you only get 1/2 or even 1/4 tank full no matter how long you wait!!!

2. Check when the cng tanks expire. They go for $1,000 for a new tank on ebay. If the tanks are already expired: DON'T BUY. If the tanks will expire in a few years: be sure you're willing to pay $1000 per tank plus labor ($500?). I've heard from a cng mechanic they make them in sets of 3.

3. Check the receptacle that you connect the gas pump to. If it has a lip, it is older NGV-1 DON'T BUY (I hear $120 new receptacle part not including labor). The pumps except for one in Santa Ana, CA all use newer NGV-2 type, which have no lip whatsoever. You cannot connect CNG pumps to the old NGV-1 type (not in Victorville, Barstow, Las Vegas, St. George, Cedar city, fillmore, springville, slc etc.).

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. NEVER GET CNG ONLY
2. CHECK CNG TANKS EXPIRATION DATE
3. CHECK RECEPTACLE FOR INCOMPATIBLE OLD NGV-1 TYPE LIP

1. NEVER get CNG only! If you're going to try for CNG, get a bi-fuel so you never get stranded (especially in Las Vegas where there are NO PUBLIC STATIONS (you have to buy a card from Haycock Petroleum and find a hidden fillup station that may even be broken when you pull into town at 4:30 in the morning and have to wait for business hours)). NO TAX CREDIT IS WORTH THE HASSLE OF LAS VEGAS OR GETTING STRANDED. NEVER GET CNG ONLY!!! Also, utah cng stations may not have pressure so you only get 1/2 or even 1/4 tank full no matter how long you wait!!!

Nonsense. CNG only is just fine for most drivers. You simply ahve to know where you are going, and check the fueling infrastructure ahead of time. Very rarely are there any surprises to an educated owner. All the information about station availablility is readily available on cngprices.com. I'd be willing to bet a majority of the owners on this site have Dedicated CNG vehicles, and most have never gotten stranded.

2. Check when the cng tanks expire. They go for $1,000 for a new tank on ebay. If the tanks are already expired: DON'T BUY. If the tanks will expire in a few years: be sure you're willing to pay $1000 per tank plus labor ($500?). I've heard from a cng mechanic they make them in sets of 3.

3. Check the receptacle that you connect the gas pump to. If it has a lip, it is older NGV-1 DON'T BUY (I hear $120 new receptacle part not including labor). The pumps except for one in Santa Ana, CA all use newer NGV-2 type, which have no lip whatsoever. You cannot connect CNG pumps to the old NGV-1 type (not in Victorville, Barstow, Las Vegas, St. George, Cedar city, fillmore, springville, slc etc.).

These I would agree with, but I would reckon a majority of the prospective buyers out here have no desire for CNG vehicles that old anyways.

Try not to go overboard on posts. You being upset is fine, but saying that noone should ever purchase a dedicated CNG vehicle is rediculous. You made a mistake taking a long trip without doing the research.

[Curtis]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

Thanks Crazi, glad to see a level head prevailed. And what the heck is he talking about with the nozzles. A 3600 psi Nozzle will work on the older 3000psi fitting. There's about a 1mm difference in size so they won't fit the other way around.

[maxman]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

While I understand the expiration issue on tanks, I'm not familiar with the nozzle issue.
However, I disagree with the "never" buy a dedicated. I am from the SLC area also, and I see no reason to not go with dedicated if you are using the vehicle to commute along the Wasatch front.
While it is frustrating to find low pressure at some of the pumps, I've always been able to get cng.
I was able to take my F150 from SLC to Duschene, about 150 miles from where I live and east of SLC, round trip on CNG. The truck is bi-fuel, but I only used CNG. Most dedicated trucks have extra or larger CNG tanks.
Granted, there is a certain amount of inconvenience with having to fill up often, but the cost of CNG in Utah more than makes up for the inconvenience. I have a Geo metro I used to commute in, but the F150 only costs half as much to drive.
If someone plans on using the vehicle to travel on vacations and such, then yes, one would definitely want bi-fuel. You can't always rely on stations working, especially when only one is available in an area.
These are just my thoughts on dedicated.

[Andy-Paul]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

And, while we're on the subject, I'm not that fond of Vegas no matter what I'm driving.

[afvman]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

re. 'Nozzle' question...

To be clear. The NGV-1 standard applies to fill connectors, hose nozzles and vehicle receptacles. NGV-2 refers to CNG cylinders!

The NGV-1 design for receptacles are specific for 2400 psi, 3000 psi and 3600 psi. They all look similar but...

First they'll be marked P24, P30 or P36 if you can still read them. The hose nozzles are supposed to be color coded as well. Green for 24, blue for 3000 and yellow for 3600 (I think that's right).

By design you can't hook up the wrong nozzle, viz. a higher pressure to a lower pressure receptacle. They won't fit. But...

You can always hook a lower pressure dispenser nozzle to a higher pressure receptacle on your vehicle. You just won't get a full fill.

At least that's the way it's supposed to work.

afvman

[Beej]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

Wow, dougie, bitter much???

I have to agree with the other comments above and say there is nothing wrong with dedicated CNG. I LOVE my Civic GX. Is it less convenient? Sure, no one is denying that. But all you have to do is plan ahead and realize that it's not a car for a long distance road trip. (I wouldn't want it on a long distance road trip, my wife's Accord EX-L is much more comfortable to drive). One of the reasons I wanted a dedicated engine is because NG runs so much cleaner than gasoline and I wanted a dedicated system because I figured it was the cleanest and would last the longest. For a daily commuter my dedicated NGV is awesome, so is the 85 cents a gallon I pay AND THAT IS WORTH THE HASSLE!!!

Per your other points, I'd say just make sure you're getting a vehicle from a reputable dealer and you should be just fine. It's the after market conversions from the fireplace installers and other fly-by-night locations that tend to have the most problems. There have been plenty of pics posted on this site that show the sketchy work some of these businesses are putting on our roads. There are several trustworthy dealers here in UT and even more in AZ and CA that will provide a great vehicle that you can drive for years to come.

Now settle down a little, take some deep breaths, and realize that natural gas is a great alternative fuel that has proven itself as a viable choice in the marketplace.

[rtry9a]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

I can understand Crazi's love of dedicated cars simply because he lives, and probably stays, in SoCal where there are lots of stations to pick from when his umbilical cord gets shortened.

On the other hand, that opinion makes no sense anywhere else (for example, UTAH/Colorado/Wyoming/Idaho/Washington/Oregon/Nevada/Arizona/NM/Montana/etc) that I can think of, other than it is the only game in town.

Personally, I won't ever consider a dedicated alternative fuel vehicle; I travel outside of the narrow I-15 corridor too often for an overly expensive, limited range/local-use-only, no trunk storage, one-purpose vehicle that makes little economic sense.

A dual fuel luxury (Towncar/STS/Lexus) or a sporty car (BMW/G35/Mustang/Vette) offering is what I'd prefer, otherwise I'll have to settle on the bi-fuel pickup for now.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

I was in no way saying I love dedicated cars, just that for MOST drivers interested in CNG (which, for the most part, are commuters, who drive the same route nearly every day) dedicated is just fine. I was merely trying to say that just because he had a bad experience, doesn't mean people should "NEVER GET CNG ONLY!!!". I myself have both a dedicated vehicle for around town and commuting, and a bi-fuel for long trips. It's all in getting the right vehicle for your needs. It appears this person had bought a car in SoCal, and tried driving it home to SLC, and got stuck in Vegas, because he didn't research ahead of time. The I-15 corridor is perfectly fine for dedicated vehicles, but you have to do your research.

[rtry9a]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

I was in no way saying I love dedicated cars, just that for MOST drivers interested in CNG (which, for the most part, are commuters, who drive the same route nearly every day) dedicated is just fine.
....Only if the natgas stations are always available AND reliable, which they are not and seem to be getting worse

I was merely trying to say that just because he had a bad experience, doesn't mean people should "NEVER GET CNG ONLY!!!". I myself have both a dedicated vehicle for around town and commuting, and a bi-fuel for long trips. It's all in getting the right vehicle for your needs. It appears this person had bought a car in SoCal, and tried driving it home to SLC, and got stuck in Vegas, because he didn't research ahead of time. The I-15 corridor is perfectly fine for dedicated vehicles, but you have to do your research.

The I-15 corridor actually extends beyond Ogden; you are screwed if you try most destinations north of Salt Lake City or San Francisco, east of Park City or I-5, or south of StGeorge. From SLC, one cannot get to Reno, Idaho, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix, or Portland on naggas- seems limiting to me

[mecklen]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

1. NEVER get CNG only! If you're going to try for CNG, get a bi-fuel so you never get stranded ... utah cng stations may not have pressure so you only get 1/2 or even 1/4 tank full no matter how long you wait!!!

I've been driving a dedicated GX since November around Utah and Nevada and have never been stranded. During that time there was a single time when a pump did not work for me (61 fill ups so far). I've driven to Las Vegas and it is fabulous.

Although I haven't done the trip yet, Salt Lake to L.A. is clearly a no-brainer with cngprices.com.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I would still recommend a CNG Civic to anyone who asks (with the obvious caveats on range and fuel availability outside the SLC-LA corridor).

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

The I-15 corridor actually extends beyond Ogden; you are screwed if you try most destinations north of Salt Lake City or San Francisco, east of Park City or I-5, or south of StGeorge. From SLC, one cannot get to Reno, Idaho, Denver, Seattle, Phoenix, or Portland on naggas- seems limiting to me

I was discussing commuting, and daily driving. Not long distance trips. I DID say for long distance travelling, that bi-fuel was better.

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

For a lot of people like me, and many others here in California, a dedicated car is the ONLY way to go. We get HOV lane access, free parking in some places, no toll on some bridges. There are plenty of reliable stations around to get fuel. With all the money saved you can rent a car for those trips where CNG is not available.

[blackws]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

I have had 2 dedicated CNG vehicles since 2002. Between them I have ran out of fuel only 3 times - all three times back in 2002. Each time was when I was trying to travel cross country from known station to known station and happened to find 1 down. Just glad I had good insurance with towing plans Now I usually don't get over half a tank from the last station.

How many remember Gasoline stations being located in tiny towns (based around the gasoline pump) along the roadways and how these towns have dried up and blown away while car ranges increased? You also frequently knew how to repair your vehicle and carried a can of gas..... just in case

[rtry9a]

Re: 3 EXTREMELY most important things to know before you buy

I was discussing commuting, and daily driving. Not long distance trips. I DID say for long distance traveling, that bi-fuel was better.

Im fine with your logic Fuzzy. Driving in LA is quite different than most other places in the West. It just does not make sense to me to have to own both an insanely expensive short-distance commuter AND still need a "normal" car in the driveway to get away from the city.

Bi-fuel capability solves both needs simultaneously and often provides a cost huge advantage for cross-country over a gas-only "long distance" vehicle, when expensive gasoline is needed only to fill in occasional natgas availability gaps. It is both a necessity and often a big advantage for x-country travel, especially when towing a trailer or boat (that the Civic GX simply cannot do).

The argument in favor for dedicated advantages and HOV/parking might be worth the expense in the LA freeway-inspired parking lots- IF you drive enough miles to pay for the conversion. HOV access is not a big deal in Utah where the HOV lane entrance/exit is highly restricted and the HOV traffic is often slower than other lanes. The other advantage not here mentioned is the higher compression ratios often found in the dedicated engines- better power and economy.

I'm not convinced that the conversion is worth the reduction in mileage/power, initial cost penalty, and the fueling and range difficulties with natgas given the minimal CE fuel pricing differential (in California/Arizona).