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Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

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  • joe_kan
    replied
    I never had luck with having the fuel injectors serviced. If you have working ones cleaned that is probably OK but the clinkers always came back as clinkers from the service. Used to buy from Auto Zone for about $160 (yes they have them just make sure you do not get the gasoline engine ones since folks in the store are probably not familiar with CNG vehicles). Auto Zone now wants $248. Got new ones from Rock Auto for $157 today, installed them and no issues. Can't say my experience is the same as others but I've owned GXs for over a decade and have replaced a few injectors during this time and never was able to bring a clinker back to life.

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  • mikel9935
    replied
    I am replacing mine. I first bought rebuilt ones off eBay. They were beck 155-0481, but when they arrived they were nothing at all like the Keihin ud13-bb63 units that came with the car. So, I returned them. Strangely, Autozone tried to sell me the exact same thing, claiming their system said they fit too. Advance and oreilly did not carry them. They said an Aus part might work but just looking at it there was no way. Ok, so using the original honda part number 16450-rne-a01 I found original parts on eBay for 160$ each.

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  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    I wouldn't worry about CNG attacking the coils or insulation. I would be more concerned about any clean fluid put through the fuel system causing electrical problems. My other concern would oil entrained in the natural gas causing carbon to build up around the injector tips.

    Jim Linder does good work, I have used his services on gasoline injectors.

    Larrycng

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  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Natural gas should bother the coils or insulation in the injectors. I would be more concerned about oil or moisture getting into the injectors or carbon forming around the tips from oil intrained in the gas. I would think that cleaning fluid, alcohol or sea foam attacking the insulation. Of course John Deere recommended alcohol for cleaning the injectors and they were the Bosch type injectors.
    Larrycng

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  • onefasteg
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Originally posted by olescarb View Post
    I am assuming heat plays a factor with this?
    I assume it would be from the insulation breaking down, this could be from poor insulation on the coil, heat or exposure to the fuel being used (CNG). General Motors had an issue with the fuel degrading the internal injector o-rings of thier multec fuel injectors which allowed the fuel to then attack the insulation of the injector coils thus creating a shorted coil, my question is could the CNG be leaking past the o-rings inside the injector and then causing the injector coil insulation to fail like the multec injectors did with gasoline?

    Henry @ oles carb[/QUOTE]

    Only reason I say this is my 99 GX looks like the high press. filter was never changed. I also looked at the high press. regulator and oil is saturated all over the outside, in the fuel rail there was oil dripping out. I have since changed it, but the funny thing is, this car runs like a champ with 160K miles on it

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  • Abe
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    I sent all 4 of my fuel injectors to Lindertech for cleaning and service for my 2000 Honda Civic GX. Initial symptoms were P0301, very loud clicking from injector #1and noticeably louder clicking from injector #3 than #2 and #4. I first bought 2 new injectors and replaced #1 and #3 and car ran "fine" with no check engine light. I drove the car for about 2,000 miles like this. When I was going on vacation, I decided to send all 4 original injectors to Lindertech for their $29.95 each service. Lindertech charged me for only 3 injectors stating that the final flow from injector #1 was out of range. They include a flow report for before and after service and #2, #3, and #4 were fine. I installed a new injector in #1 and the cleaned injectors in #2, #3, and #4. The car now idles smoother than ever and injector #3 clicking is as quiet as the others. As a preventive measure, I would highly recommend sending your injectors to Lindertech.

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  • olescarb
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    I am assuming heat plays a factor with this?[/QUOTE]

    I assume it would be from the insulation breaking down, this could be from poor insulation on the coil, heat or exposure to the fuel being used (CNG). General Motors had an issue with the fuel degrading the internal injector o-rings of thier multec fuel injectors which allowed the fuel to then attack the insulation of the injector coils thus creating a shorted coil, my question is could the CNG be leaking past the o-rings inside the injector and then causing the injector coil insulation to fail like the multec injectors did with gasoline?

    Henry @ oles carb

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  • onefasteg
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Originally posted by olescarb View Post
    The Honda fuel injectors were brought to us to check, we found that injector #3 had a lower loaded resistance than the other 3 injectors. We also noted that injector #3 would not cycle at injector pulse comands higher than idle speeds, without cutting the injector open to look at the windings i would assume that the injector coil wire insulation is the problem.

    Henry @ oles carb
    I am assuming heat plays a factor with this?

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  • olescarb
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    The Honda fuel injectors were brought to us to check, we found that injector #3 had a lower loaded resistance than the other 3 injectors. We also noted that injector #3 would not cycle at injector pulse comands higher than idle speeds, without cutting the injector open to look at the windings i would assume that the injector coil wire insulation is the problem.


    Henry @ oles carb

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  • onefasteg
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Originally posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
    Let us know if that works. If it does not , you are out $ 360 . Very little demand for '01 and later injectors. 98-00 Injectors are the ones in demand. If you look at the post on '# 3 cylinder mis fire " the injector issue is dicussed in detail. See thread http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread....ire-Cylinder-3
    Nice, thanks for the find.

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  • Lakewood90712
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Originally posted by onefasteg View Post
    I have a 99 Civic GX, and the injectors from Majestic Honda online are around $400 each, wouldn't it be possible to use the 06+ Civic GX injectors on the 99 since they are around $90 a piece, just buy all 4???
    Let us know if that works. If it does not , you are out $ 360 . Very little demand for '01 and later injectors. 98-00 Injectors are the ones in demand. If you look at the post on '# 3 cylinder mis fire " the injector issue is dicussed in detail. See thread http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread....ire-Cylinder-3
    Last edited by Lakewood90712; 03-17-2011, 07:31 PM.

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  • onefasteg
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Originally posted by Curtis View Post
    I know there's a handful of you out there that can address this question. Many an injector has been replaced by forum members, but I've heard of getting them cleaned and making them serviceable again. I suspect that this may be significantly cheaper than replacement if it's appropriate for a given circumstance.

    The question is two parts;
    1) When is it warranted to replace, rather than clean a cng fuel injector after having a problem like random misfires for example. I know that the coil packs can also cause this symptom, so just reply to the injector side of the issue.

    2) Who and where could you send the injectors in question to have this service done. Are they autoclaved or can you take a can of parts-dip and do it yourself? I've seen posts where enthusiastic shade tree mechanics have tried to clean their own injectors and ended up with more problems than when they started.

    PS What about having them replaced vs rebuilt? Is that an option?
    I have a 99 Civic GX, and the injectors from Majestic Honda online are around $400 each, wouldn't it be possible to use the 06+ Civic GX injectors on the 99 since they are around $90 a piece, just buy all 4???

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  • olescarb
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    We charge our customers $15.00 each ($120 for a set of 8 or $150 for a set of 10) to clean the injectors in a ultrasonic bath while the injectors are being cycled by the bench and then flowing the injectors to be sure they are flow matched. Most of the companies we clean and flow injectors have fleets of CNG shuttle buses and several of these companies have given us spare injectors so we can have some back-up injectors on-site to use if one or more of thier injectors have a flow variance of more than 3 to 5% different from thier other injectors.

    FYI, many of the CNG injectors we have serviced have had filters (the internal press in filter) that were flow restricted with black carbon like debris that would only be repaired by replacing the filters in each injector.

    Henry @ ole's carb & elec.
    Last edited by olescarb; 02-06-2011, 02:58 PM. Reason: add in FYI

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  • ccappaul
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    I dont know about the warehouse. But I just recently cleaned my own injectors. It was easy and the car is running great. Maybe I just got lucky but after reseasrching and talking to a couple shops. This was the way to go for me to start. If it didn't work I always had the option of going broke buying new.

    Get to the 2nd and 3rd page
    http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread....nning-horrible

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  • tslater
    replied
    Re: Fuel Injectors, clean vrs replace

    Anyone have any experience with injector whse (injectorwhse.com but you have to call them at the time being because the cng's are not listed online)? It seems they have the fuel injectors for 34.95 a piece rebuilt and I'm curious to give it a shot.

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