NG and hydrogen blend

[ajgiorgi]

I was reading that hydrogen vehicles get a lot better gas mileage. I was wondering if people that have blended have gotten better gas mileage in their vehicles?

[Larryect]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

That sounds like an amazing multi-fuel truck.

I had no idea how H2 compared. I saw a pump in Riverside CA for H2 it had a price of $9.00/Kg....

[Stu Man]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

That sounds like an amazing multi-fuel truck.

I had no idea how H2 compared. I saw a pump in Riverside CA for H2 it had a price of $9.00/Kg....

Yeeeshhh. $9.00 per Kg.
In Canada, we sell CNG by the Kg.
If my math is correct:
1) (9.00*.67)= $6.03 per liter
2) (6.03 * 3.78541) = $22.83 per U.S. Gallon

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

I was reading that hydrogen vehicles get a lot better gas mileage. I was wondering if people that have blended have gotten better gas mileage in their vehicles?

I'm certain that was not Hydrogen ICE you read about, but a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. I do believe that they would get about twice the miles per btu of h2 than a gasoline ICE vehicle. However, blenging hydrogen into your CNG would basically make your fuel much more expensive, all while greatly decreasing your range. About the only 'benefit' to blening in H2, would be lower CO2 emmisions out your exhaust pipe, if your one of the people who might care about such things.

Looking at price per amount energy:

1 gallone gasoline (115 kBTU) @ $4/gallon:   3.47¢/kBTU
1 gge cng (115 kBTU) @ $2/gge:               1.74¢/kBTU
1 kg H2 (116.3 kBTU) @ $9/kg:                7.74¢/kBTU

So, H2 in an ICE... Considerably less range than CNG, at twice the price of gasoline... why not???

[Timon]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

I think the Honda FCX is supposed to get 60 miles/Kg but that still makes it more expensive than either CNG or gasoline. They have to get the cost of H2 down before it can become a main stream fuel.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

Just to give you an idea, that Riverside Price of $9/kg is the high end. The Riverside plant is a self-running electrolysis unit, capable of producing enough hydrogen for about 5 cars max, and of that, we're talking SMALL cars, with minimal use. Electrolysis is the least efficient method of manufacturing hydrogen, but is the simplest to run in a small operation like this. Reformation would be cheaper (I believe there is a reformer based automated Chevron unit at the Hyundai test facility in Chino (off the 60), though it is private use only, so no idea on what price that unit would be.

Basically, because of the cost of electricity, which will not be coming down, I don't think you will see hydrogen getting much cheaper for quite some time. No one who has ever thought about the actual economy has ever said hydrogen would make a good vehicular fuel. It only becomes an economical alternative when gasoline reaches $8-10/gal..

[ajgiorgi]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

I'm certain that was not Hydrogen ICE you read about, but a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. I do believe that they would get about twice the miles per btu of h2 than a gasoline ICE vehicle. However, blenging hydrogen into your CNG would basically make your fuel much more expensive, all while greatly decreasing your range. About the only 'benefit' to blening in H2, would be lower CO2 emmisions out your exhaust pipe, if your one of the people who might care about such things.

Looking at price per amount energy:

1 gallone gasoline (115 kBTU) @ $4/gallon:   3.47¢/kBTU
1 gge cng (115 kBTU) @ $2/gge:               1.74¢/kBTU
1 kg H2 (116.3 kBTU) @ $9/kg:                7.74¢/kBTU

So, H2 in an ICE... Considerably less range than CNG, at twice the price of gasoline... why not???

Yeah, it was a fuel cell vehicle.

[CraziFuzzy]

Re: NG and hydrogen blend

Yeah, it was a fuel cell vehicle.

Just liek to point out, that if you are making the H2 from electrolysis, then compressing it to put it in the car, then running it through a fuel cell to make electricity to drive an electric motor... why is that better than charging an electric car form the initial electricity? In the Hydrogen car, if you want max effeciency, you have to have a battery bank to adsorb the regernerative braking anyways.