Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

[josch]

One of the mods here has the pic below in his sig, but here's what I was wondering....



Wouldn't it be smart to combine these 2 technologies into one vehicle to make for even greater efficiency? Hybrid technology just takes all of the wasted energy from deceleration, braking, coasting down hills, etc, and stores that energy in batteries to be later used on demand. Well why would you pi$s on that technology if you could use it to your advantage and make CNG go even further per mile? Isn't that one of the main reasons people consider switching to CNG? For increased efficiency? To reduce your monthly fuel costs? I don't know why Honda doesn't do this already in the Civic GX NGV? It seems like the next LOGICAL step. Not to pi$s on it. Honda already uses and sells both technologies. New NGVs should be able to be sold with Hybrid technology built-in. Then manufacturers will have an easier time meeting the minimum mileage requirements without having to pay the EPA the penalties. What would be wrong with that?

What are your thoughts on that?

[CNGfamily]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Wouldn't it be smart to combine these 2 technologies into one vehicle to make for even greater efficiency? Hybrid technology just takes all of the wasted energy from deceleration, braking, coasting down hills, etc, and stores that energy in batteries to be later used on demand.

I'm not sure why Murphy uses the Calvin knock off, but I can tell you that from what I've researched... when you consider the TOTAL cost to the environment, hybrids are not all that green... although recycleable, batteries are not even close to friendly.

Prius' and hybrid Civics are good to the extent that they get folks out of single occupant SUVs, but we'd be better off to just get them into ANY smaller, fuel efficient vehicle.

[josch]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

It just seemed to me that, what would be better than 55-60mpg, but 55-60mpGGE? You'd have to ride a motorcycle to get that kind of mileage.

IT IS POSSIBLE. I'm sure they can find a place to put the batteries, and I heard lithium can be recycled and is not harmful to the environment, although I do not know if there are any caveats to this claim.

We as Americans have solved bigger problems over the years, so I have all the faith that combining these is not that hard to do for them

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Someday the ultimate commuter car will be built, 2 seater, put the battteries and cng tanks where the extra passengers wont go, have a decent size trunk, stock Civic size, pop in a turbocharged 1.0-1.4 liter spark-Diesel, 6-speed manual/w auto mode and you are talking 60-80 mpg on CNG.
Stock VW diesels get close to 50mpg highway now.

[josch]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Here's links to articles on a new biodegradable sugar battery that Sony has developed that could lead to diverse usage:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201802311

http://www.livescience.com/technology/070325_sugar_batteries.html

Don't forget that Sony commercialized the first lithium-ion battery back in 1991, which later became the standard thing so common to us today. This new technology could replace the current means of energy storage in hybrids

[Timon]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Lithium batteries are recyclable so yet they are much better for the environment. If you use them then a CNG hybrid would be an excellent vehicle.

The lithium battery stack is easy enough to hide just about any place in the car but the real question is what kind of hybrid, parallel or series? My vote would be for a series hybrid. That way the drive is as simple as you can get. No transmission just a simple gear reduction or nothing if you use in wheel motors. The CNG ICE can be tuned for optimal performance when driving the generator.

[lshuster]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

As an owner of both NGV and Hybrid vehicles combining the best of these technologies is a bit like chasing the "proverbial holy grail."

But don't dismiss the packaging issues. (They ain't simple!) The original Austin/Morris Mini (and later Cooper) designed by the late Air Alec Issigonnis were revolutionary in their ability to carry four adults, handle well, and be operated very economically. Pretty amazing for 1959, and a direct result of the 1956 Suez Canal (energy) Crisis (what else is new?)

Today's platform designers have to deal with crashworthiness and crush zones and combine a mind-boggling array of electronics, entertainment, navigation, vehicle stability control systems, HVAC, the list goes on and on.

The vehicle you are asking for essentially goes into limited production in Japan next week. It's the Honda FCX Clarity. The vehicle esstentially is fueled presently by gaseous fuels (CH4 --> H2 ); the H2 powers a fuel cell stack, which in turn produces electricity. Small capacity batteries are used to store deaccleration/braking energy via the regenerative capacity of the electric drive motor. The range and efficiency are amazing. And apart from the upstream emissions (in how you create the hydrogen) the tailpipe emissions are nada, as in zero.

Check out the cross-sectional X-ray view of this Honda and you'll begin to appreciate the packaging marvel that it reperesents. The traditional center-tunnel houses the fuel cell stack. The point that most manufacturers have come to is the clean-sheet of drafting paper. Trying to shoehorn and marry various technologies into a traditional platform package just has too many compromises.

[maxman]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Another consideration would be cost. I imagine at least half of people buy CNG for economic reasons before evironmental reasons. If you weighed the increased cost of the vehicle against the fuel savings, I imagine they may not be economically feasible to produce because of low sales. If sales demand were there, I am guessing there would still be many OEM CNG vehicles available.
Max

[Idarusskie]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

actually this fits the logo better.

http://www.livescience.com/health/050816_urine_battery.html

[CNG MOTORS]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

I would have chimed in sooner had I saw this thread but here goes. To truly understand my distain for Hybrids you must be an Arizona resident with a bi-fuel vehicle.

1. All bi-fuel vehicle were kicked out of AZ HOV lanes to make room for 10,000 hybrids.
2. I have a sense of humor about everything and apperental some don't
3. I use this picture to get under peoples skin because some of you allow it to happen. Mama always said nobody can hurt your feellings only you can allow your feellings to by hurt.
4. Civic Hybrid gets 40 mpg yes it does a buddy of mine just bought one. GX's (CNG) also get 40mpg
5. Batteries, landfill , self explanitory
6. I truly believe Hybrids were the comprimise between polititions and big oil. Polititions needed the appearance that they were doing something about the environment and big oil need you to keep using oil. We have been brain washed to think this is good.
7. This is not hybridchat.com

Don't get me wrong Hydrids are better than doing nothing. But it's just 1 step, why wouldn't you take 5 or 10 steps if you could. Tell me how you like your Prius at $8 per gallon. Can't happen no? Already $8/ gallon is Europe I just came from there 1 week ago.

For those with sensitive feelings please advert your eyes now. Here comes the Calvin

[cnghal]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Murphy,
You forgot one big point, If hybrids aren't a joint OEM, Big Oil, Bureaucratic conspiracy, then why can't you plug them in to your house or a solar array and never use gas for a short commute to work or trip to the corner store?

[Adrian]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Why doesn't someone come out with a kit to make them "plugin" capable? It can't be that hard...

The kits exist...they are just way to pricey. Kind of like $18,000 cng conversions

[cnghal]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Pricey yes, and they void your warranty.
One kit even comes with a new battery pack so when you take your car to the dealer for warranty service, you swap systems.
I believe that system is only around $25k.
If you think playing with high pressure CNG can be scary, just dive under the hood of a 400 Volt electrical system which is what some hybrids are.
I'm courious, if Lithium explodes when introduced to water, what would happen to Hybrid Escape with a Lithium Ion battery backing down a boat ramp? Sounds like fodder for YouTube!

[CNG MOTORS]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

Remember E85 when it first came out and everyone latched on to it like it was the answer to all our prayers, Except those of us that really new what was going on. E85 had always been a big joke another compromise between government and big oil. Well where is E85 now?

If you could buy a civic hybrid and a civic gx for the same premium why wouldn't you go with the GX? Same fuel economy. Cheaper fuel, cleaner burning, unless the hybrid technology gets improved upon then it's the next E85 joke. Now the libertarian in me (I'm actually an independent) says the better technology already exists but oil&government is keeping it squashed/ paid off the inventor/ or snuffed him out.

CNG is way to big and out of control now that they can't get their arms around it , they can't take us all out. But they can slow the growth and technology queue the EPA.

[c2sox]

Re: Quick question to moderator - CNGmotors - and others

How about hybrid and CNG technology coupled with these new motors?

http://www.revetec.com/index.html