Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

[danielbeck]

I have spent days searching this site, the EPA site and other various sites for conversion kit legality answers...

I own a 1977 Ford truck that pre-dates many smog and OBD equipment components which would mean the installation of a CNG conversion kit wouldn't be tampering with any emission control components. So, for older vehicles I presume that it is perfectly legal to self-install a CNG kit since I can't tamper with equipment that wasn't there in the first place... What other illegalities might I be dealing with?

Overall, I rarely drive the truck since it is a gas hog and pollutes more than my other vehicles but it would be nice to be able to drive the truck and feel a little more environmentally responsible.

I know 1994 was when OBD-II came into place - if there is a cut-off date as to when the legality issues don't apply, what is the date? I know, for example, in many states vehicles that are 1963 or older don't even need to have any emission compliance. Is there something similar for the CNG kits?

[rkcarguy]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

I've unfortunately found in my experience with government that they leave "red heerings" and loose language in many of the laws writen, that can be interpreted many different ways. I've seen many a 70's Chevy P/U with a propane tank in the bed going down the road, and never heard of anyone getting a hard time about it. There is always some crap going on however. Washington state for example, recently removed the sound limit(95dba per federal standards) for modified exhaust from the state RCW and left the decision solely on the discretion of the officer. So now every import with a polished stainless muffler gets a ticket, while diesels and harleys with 6" straight pipes roar by unbothered. There has been alot of discussion about this as of late, and from what I've seen as long as your vehicle will pass the sniffer test you're good to go(except california-you have the right to proceed to your nearest hummer dealer while they crush your EV-1).

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

I am curious about smog testing in other states. Here in CA they inspect under your hood, they have a long checklist of items including "filler cap" which on my car is N/A. They test using a dyno like thing under your wheels. I dont think any non EPA/CARB kit would fly, and even an approved kit may be a headache to pass.
If you have a pre-74 car then nobody is going to do squat, no smog inspections neccessary. Got a boat? Go for it.
I am still looking for a tank for my 87 Kawasaki 550 (jetski), if the Chinese can run 2-strokes, so can I!

[Idarusskie]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

for jet ski you would need something like an scba(or SCUBA) tank.

[CNGfamily]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

I am curious about smog testing in other states.

In Arizona (if you're in Maricopa or Pima counties or you commute to them; not all AZ vehicles require a smog inspection) your vehicle does get a physical inspection, including under the hood and under the chassis for "proper" configuration. That's why I would have to keep a smog pump on my '78 vette even if I were to install a new engine with a closed loop system where the smog pump would do NOTHING but confuse the oxygen sensors. But I digress... The cutoff year for inspection here is 1967, so a 70's truck would be inspected in AZ. I suspect you'd need to go older than '67 to be legit.

[Techie]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

In Arizona (if you're in Maricopa or Pima counties or you commute to them; not all AZ vehicles require a smog inspection) your vehicle does get a physical inspection, including under the hood and under the chassis for "proper" configuration. That's why I would have to keep a smog pump on my '78 vette even if I were to install a new engine with a closed loop system where the smog pump would do NOTHING but confuse the oxygen sensors. But I digress... The cutoff year for inspection here is 1967, so a 70's truck would be inspected in AZ. I suspect you'd need to go older than '67 to be legit.

It's a gray area with some states. If you get a visual inspection, it will depend on an inspector and state that you are in if they want to fail you. Technically, they are looking for missing components. If you have an extra fuel system, you are not really missing anything. Here is the thing. Those inspectors get paid $9.00/hr max and most do not speak English. They have no idea for example that a Ford EEC-IV system has to be pre-conditioned BEFORE running the IM-147. They do not read manuals. They have never worked on cars. I have seen properly functioning vehicle failing the test because of incorrect procedure being performed. Will they fail you for CNG? If they ran your car on CNG and tested it at tailpipe, you would be cleaner than many PZEV(Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) running on gasoline. Because you are not polluting, wasting gas and making noise, you may get hard time for tampering. States are new to CNG, they freak out as of right now.

I personally agree with Utah policy. They check the tailpipe. If your tailpipe passes the test at or below specs, you have passed.

In non-carb compliant states, it's technically not illegal to add a few things on as long as your tailpipe emissions are at or below specs. You just cannot get credit for CNG system. Example: High performance punks add stuff on left and right. To my disappointment, I have never seen them fail and they really should have. If the original components are still on, they pass. Blow off valves, extra grounds, PCV catch cans and so on are generally ignored outside of CA. This may change at anytime, because we all know that blow-off valves cause rich mixture. Turbo boost controllers cause high NOx.

I would start by calling your state or county emissions programs headquarters and start asking questions. Like always, document everything, including name, time and department. Carry that info with you at all times. It is very common to talk to 10 different people and get 10 different answers. You could get screwed by the 11th.

[rkcarguy]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

The BOV's typically cause a rich mixture when shifting, because a STOCK fuel system will continue feeding fuel during a shift while the air that passed the airflow sensor is exhausted. There is a gizzy box you can buy aftermarket, or if you have a tuned ECU you can tune it out. FYI it makes a the car quite a bit slower by having that rich burp after each shift, I recirculated mine and shaved 1/2 second off my 1/4 time. Lets not classify everyone that bolts on an intake or exhaust a "high performance punk". There's alot of things from the factory that just don't make sense. The fact that I can put a aftermerket intake and exhaust on my car and pick up 10% mpg attests to that. Up there in washington we generally have no emissions except major city area's, where it's just a tailpipe sniffer test. If you have a V12 shoehorned into your civic, as long as it's acceptable levels, you'll pass.
IMO turbocharging is the future, it's the best way to get mileage and incredible power from a small engine. My next step after playing with LPG and CNG is going to be cramming it into the engine with a big snail
Bottom line, I think it's going to be a state by state thing. Someone gives you hell for trying to run a cleaner fuel and save some money, that's exactly where they can go.

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

LOL ON POST#4 Idarusskie thinks I was serious.

[rkcarguy]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

LOL ON POST#4 Idarusskie thinks I was serious.

Noticed that. Surprised the mod hasn't got on that yet(scuba tank).

[ajgiorgi]

Re: Pre OBD Conversion Kit- Illegal???

If you have a pre-74 car then nobody is going to do squat, no smog inspections neccessary. !

In Ca I believe it's 30 years for smog exempt vehicles. So a 1978 vehicle would be smog exempt now.