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CNG vs LPG?

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  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Dmitry View Post
    Oh, you were a cop? Then maybe you can tell me what is tampering with emissions system - an misdemeanor? Don't you physically have to see it done to be able to arrest somebody, let alone impound the vehicle?
    Couldn't begin to answer that... I wasn't a DMV cop, just a beat cop in Phoenix. You didn't have to smog your car then...

    Originally posted by Dmitry View Post
    Every once in a while, I see something for sale on Craigslist that runs on propane (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/706446694.html) So if I buy it, and it was not properly certified before installation, shall I be liable?
    It depends on the DMV regs in your state. In Ca you could bring it in from another state but it better pass smog.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dmitry
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Oh, you were a cop? Then maybe you can tell me what is tampering with emissions system - an misdemeanor? Don't you physically have to see it done to be able to arrest somebody, let alone impound the vehicle?

    Every once in a while, I see something for sale on Craigslist that runs on propane (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/car/706446694.html) So if I buy it, and it was not properly certified before installation, shall I be liable?

    Don't get me wrong, I am all pro the rule of law. But the more expensive the fuel, the greater length people will go to improve their livelihoods. The more pressure on society to change, CARB included.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Dmitry View Post
    Curtis, is that the good cop or the bad cop in you talking? But don't choke your car salesman self, I am sure it's burning you to get an LPG Civic. Maybe if Toyota comes up with one, your higher will be more willing... Ooops, they already did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Crown_Comfort_LPG

    Too bad US auto makers are protected from market forces. If only Japanese could sell their vans over here (Toyota Hiace, Nissan Caravan), the pickup pillar would crush, and man that would be a rude awakening. We need a cultural revolution. Bring it on! Today I bought 89 gas at $4.55. Bring it on!
    Like I said, I have an LPG car, as well as cng. LPG is definitely a cheaper conversion but in Ca you just can't get the kits for the same reason that the cng kits aren't widely available... four letters... starting with C.A.R.B.
    Besides, I'm not a car salesman, I'm an automotive buyers consultant. Just ask my customers. And how did you know I used to be a cop?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dmitry
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Curtis, is that the good cop or the bad cop in you talking? But don't choke your car salesman self, I am sure it's burning you to get an LPG Civic. Maybe if Toyota comes up with one, your higher will be more willing... Ooops, they already did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Crown_Comfort_LPG

    Too bad US auto makers are protected from market forces. If only Japanese could sell their vans over here (Toyota Hiace, Nissan Caravan), the pickup pillar would crush, and man that would be a rude awakening. We need a cultural revolution. Bring it on! Today I bought 89 gas at $4.55. Bring it on!

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Dmitry View Post
    So this is where I get confused - why is the same fuel + road tax actually less expensive by close to 30%? Where does that extra dollar come from - to pay the guy who is filling up the bottles?
    Yep.

    And is there any resource we can use to locate the "motor fuel" LPG stations? I've been searching online, but all kinds of "U-haul" type places pop up.

    I realize this is CNG forum, but maybe the fight between CNG and LPG is not over. In consumer terms it makes more sense to spend less now. I vote LPG. I am sure vendors are here, can anybody quote me an LPG conversion of a Crown Victoria? [/quote]

    Turncoat... we may have to give you a time out for that one...

    Leave a comment:


  • jetboatjohnny
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    The burnoffs are happening all over the world. I while back I saw a chart somewhere online that listed all the countries and it was a lot of CH4.
    I will post it If I come across it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timon
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    And at one time they just burned off LPG, how times have changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Techie
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    I have read that price of LPG is somehow tied to the price of crude oil. LPG is a by-product of gasoline and natural gas production. It is not the case of CNG. CNG is a cleaner burning fuel, and, if greenhouse emissions is an issue, CNG is a cleaner option. I was told that in comparison to gasoline, LPG produces 30% less CO2 and CNG produces 70% less CO2. A gas, very similar to CNG, can be "squeezed" out of coal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Idarusskie
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    http://www.gotpropane.com/

    Now here is a propane kit.

    Leave a comment:


  • CraziFuzzy
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    I believe TechnoCarb has a few EPA certified LPG kits, though they would only be for new/near new cars, as I doubt they will continue certification for more than 1 or 2 model years old. It appears they have EPA certified bi-fuel and dedicated LPG kits for most ford 4.6 and 5.4 applications (2005-2007). http://www.technocarb.com/index.php?...d=10&Itemid=76

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Devo View Post
    It appears that a number of propane converters are still out there:

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/articl...175456,00.html
    There were 2 companies here that quit for lack of CARB approved, and possibly EPA, kits. I think they dropped the service when OBDII came around. Many kit's still come from Canada with no US approvals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Devo
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    It appears that a number of propane converters are still out there:

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/articl...175456,00.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    I've discovered that these stations don't always list themselves in the Alt Fuels Data Center (AFDC) site.

    Try altfuelprices.com and cleancarmaps.com.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dmitry
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Curtis View Post
    LPG as motor fuel is simply dispensed through a legal dispencer and charged road tax. Bottle propane runs about $1 more in the area's I'm familiar with. I agree that it's all economics. The problem with LPG is that there are almost no epa kits nowdays. Rousch just came out with a F150 propane truck. I saw it at Vegas but don't recall who did the conversion, unless it was Rousch. There was an IMPCO Mustang conversion from Texas too, owned by IMPCO. They must be doing some of the Ford motorgroups.
    So this is where I get confused - why is the same fuel + road tax actually less expensive by close to 30%? Where does that extra dollar come from - to pay the guy who is filling up the bottles?

    And is there any resource we can use to locate the "motor fuel" LPG stations? I've been searching online, but all kinds of "U-haul" type places pop up.

    I realize this is CNG forum, but maybe the fight between CNG and LPG is not over. In consumer terms it makes more sense to spend less now. I vote LPG. I am sure vendors are here, can anybody quote me an LPG conversion of a Crown Victoria?

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: CNG vs LPG?

    Originally posted by Dmitry View Post
    Curt, I live in Monterey Bay area, CA. LPG at Suburban Propane, Marina is $3.60. CNG at PG&E, Salinas is $2.60, CNG at Monterey-Salinas Transit filling station is $1.12 for 3600 psi, but it's not available to the public. How do you get LPG "as motor fuel" - is there any legislative basis to this?

    I personally believe the drive towards alternative fuels is strictly economic. So maybe propane IS a better option given the overall cost/benefit factor. Have you heard of any OEM LPG cars for sale in US? I know they have them in Japan and in Europe, but that's a sore subject. Thank you.
    LPG as motor fuel is simply dispensed through a legal dispencer and charged road tax. Bottle propane runs about $1 more in the area's I'm familiar with. I agree that it's all economics. The problem with LPG is that there are almost no epa kits nowdays. Rousch just came out with a F150 propane truck. I saw it at Vegas but don't recall who did the conversion, unless it was Rousch. There was an IMPCO Mustang conversion from Texas too, owned by IMPCO. They must be doing some of the Ford motorgroups.

    Leave a comment:

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