Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

K&N Filter performance?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: K&N Filter performance?

    Ok, i have a k&n in all of my cars. '01 Civic: I picked up 3 mpg and improved acceleration. But it is the gasoline model.
    '00 Cavalier: once again picked up 3 mpg on NG and 2 mpg on gasoline. Didn't see a difference in acceleration.
    '96 Ranger: Improvement of 2 mpg on NG and 4 mpg on gasoline. Definate improvement in horsepower/acceleration.

    Now as for voiding the warrenty: It states right on the filter box that it doesn't. On all the ones i've ever seen, i've never seen it do damaged if cleaned properly. Some people over oil it and that can cause a few issues. But if you follow the directions(i know, what a novel idea!) you won't have any problems.
    You can do anything except light a paper match, on a marshmellow, underwater!

    R.I.P. Taylor and Chris

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: K&N Filter performance?

      Ok, i have a k&n in all of my cars. '01 Civic: I picked up 3 mpg and improved acceleration. But it is the gasoline model.
      '00 Cavalier: once again picked up 3 mpg on NG and 2 mpg on gasoline. Didn't see a difference in acceleration.
      '96 Ranger: Improvement of 2 mpg on NG and 4 mpg on gasoline. Definate improvement in horsepower/acceleration.
      Did you use the one that replaces the stock filter, or did you add the whole cool air intake system?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: K&N Filter performance?

        Is it possible that the real value of these high-flow filters is that they continue to flow a decent amount of air longer than conventional air filters. Paper filters clog up fairly quickly. Perhaps this is their advantage. Since any new filter flows well, it would be interesting to see airflow data over a several month period to see the flow at different points of the filters effective life.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: K&N Filter performance?

          Originally posted by j03j03 View Post
          Now as for voiding the warrenty: It states right on the filter box that it doesn't.
          All aftermarket products say that and quote the Moss-Magnuson Act. It doesn't hold up in the real world, though. One thing about the Moss Magnuson act is that the non-OEM parts must meet the OEM specs & certifications to be covered

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: K&N Filter performance?

            I just used the stock replacements. I couldn't bring myself to spend $300+ on the intake kits.

            Yes it does hold up TheBundo, I had an injector go bad on the civic after i installed the filter and they said that it's still covered. If I had done the cold-air kit i woulda been outta luck.
            You can do anything except light a paper match, on a marshmellow, underwater!

            R.I.P. Taylor and Chris

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: K&N Filter performance?

              I have been looking for ways to squeak a little more power out of my Crown Vic. I don't want to make any radical changes that might affect mpg, but as it's a pretty big car, carrying all that extra tank weight a few more horsies wouldn't go amiss.

              If anyone has any tips I would be grateful - I am thinking of going to dual exhausts and replacing the stock air intake; K&N is an option which is why I ended up on this page.

              Gasoline powered CVs seem to favor the Marauder airbox with an 80mm MAF - I am just not technically advanced enough to know if this will create too many problems or if it will make a significant difference, or if it can even be done on a CNG CV.

              With regard to the K&N oil contamination in the MAF and other crucial areas - the following link is K&N's response to those very concerns:
              www knfilters com /MAF/massair
              Last edited by Londoner; 11-21-2010, 12:44 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: K&N Filter performance?

                Save your money. Air intake systems may do some good if you are driving "Pedal to the Metal" , but in everyday driving , no.

                The best you could do is get some weight off the car. Swap the steel cng tanks for type 3 or 4 composite tanks, alloy wheels , ditch the spare tire , jack , and back seat, smaller lighter battery.

                Ford spent $$,000,000 engineering the powertrain. Do you think they missed something simple ?.
                On the duel exhaust, my 2000 cng vic had duel exhaust with 4 cat, converters from the factory.

                P.S. On the tire/wheel issue, reduction in un-sprung weight will improve handeling and ride on ANY vehicle. Alloy wheels are usually lighter than factory steel, and tires of the same size can vary in weight as much as 6 lbs from brand or model. Search on tirerack.com and look at the weight of diferent tires of the exact same size.
                Last edited by Lakewood90712; 11-20-2010, 04:54 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: K&N Filter performance?

                  Thanks for the response and for your input - although... I think asking me if I think Ford missed something simple could be seen as a little catty. No?

                  Car manufacturers often take an overly conservative approach to tuning production vehicles. It is a common enough, and quite reasonable, question regarding the dual exhausts - obviously they help the car "breathe" more freely and the fact that your '02 came with dual exhausts suggests that it might be a reasonable upgrade.

                  Conventional thinking is that upgrading from single to dual exhausts would provide a boost in HP. In the gasoline version it appears to be 10 - 15; if I could boost my CV's HP 10 or 15 HP with a simple upgrade like that I think it would be worth the expenditure - perhaps it's a more sensible approach than losing the back seat, spare tire, etc. As for the tank swap - I am thinking that might be a little on the cost prohibitive side.

                  I am not looking to turn my car into a street racer or performance machine, still, a little extra get up and go would be nice for merging and those other moments when one needs an extra squirt of power.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: K&N Filter performance?

                    Dual exhaust on a vic would definitely help. Lakewood, if you had the dual exh from the factory it was undoubtably the P71 Police Interceptor model which came with it and I believe was rated at about 20 HP over the P72 single exhaust model (which I own). All the late model Lincoln Town Cars (which share the same engine) went to dual exhast and they claimed a 30HP increase. I have heard it takes about 15 HP to be noticeable above a placebo affect.

                    Another thing you could consider besides the weight suggestions Lakewood mentions (which I +1 agree with) is a supercharger. Since CNG is a 130+ Octane fuel, you could probably run a pretty hefty boost without any other mods. I am thinking 75+ HP gains could be possible. I have a 2007 Lincoln Town Car that runs on CNG and am seriously considering this after the factory warranty runs out. Cost would be around $5k installed I figure but there are a lot that have been done for the 4.6L V-8, even the SOHC model that the CV and LTC use. Course you have to consider longetivity of the rest of the drivetrain, which while fairly bullet proof on these cars can be broken. One question to ask yourself, if you had 300+HP would you thrash it? And if you did, you will break it is my general rule.

                    Unless of course along with the supercharger you went with a forged crank, rods, high performance heads, built up tranny with a high stall kit, PI driveshaft and some 4.11 gears.... Anything is possible with time and money.... crownvic.net is a pretty good source of info for performance mods.

                    The dual exhaust is a good add though - I think Ford should have made that stock on all CNG Vics but they didnt. Its not that they didnt know it would help, it just costs a lot more to manufacture and they are a for profit organization after all. If you did do that a Maurader airbox and MAF wouldnt hurt, but I wouldnt bother with the intake without doing the exhaust. And I am in the camp that says stay away from the K&N - they work well if you do it exactly right but its a lot of maintenance and just a little too much oil will cause all kinds of issues especially on the more sensitive to oil contamination CNG systems. A regular filter changed every 5-10k depending on your conditions gets you 99%+ of the flow. Actually a brand new stock filter draws easier than a K&N, its just the K&N doesnt degrade after 5 or10k miles like a normal filter.
                    Last edited by mbalce; 11-21-2010, 09:01 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: K&N Filter performance?

                      My 2000 Crown vic was not a Police Interceptor, just a plain jane LX. The comment on Ford missing something was not intended to be sarcastic , but a lot of folks still think the auto makers still cheap out on everything. True, they will save every nickel on parts, but will not if any performance or fuel mileage gains for a few dollars.

                      A few years back , when I suggested to someone that the CNG P.I. Crown Vic has a lot more power, another member pointed out that the CNG P.I. has the same tuning, and is even slower due to special frame reinforcements, bullistic pannels in the doors etc. ( more weight). The gasoline P.I. Crown Vic is tuned for more power for sure.

                      If your Vic has a lot of miles on it , a compression test might be something to look at . The rings should be good, but CNG is very hard on the valve faces and seats. Even one marginally damaged exhaust valve will be robing power and fuel mileage.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: K&N Filter performance?

                        Wasn't even aware Ford did a lot of the LXs in CNG, I stand corrected. That would be a nice config. Most of the ones I see are either P71s (police interceptor) and P72s (special use primarily taxi). All the P72s i have seen have the single exhaust. A CNG LX would be nice. I always keep half an eye out for 2003 or 2004 CNG CVs just because of the rack and pinion and of course the tank expiration. Though my wife tells me we need more cars like I need more holes in my head, lol. Can't imagine why sitting on three CNG cars now.... Now if I just run across that low mileage 2004 LX with a factory extended range kit and maybe a leather interior. Oh and hopefully the person wont know how rare that would be so I could pick it up for like $4k or so....

                        I do believe that the CNG P71 would outperform any other comparable year cng Vic, but any gasoline vic would probably outperform a stock cng interceptor. The cng p71 should have the performance intake heads, and the upgraded brakes and suspension, but don't think they got the special drive shaft for some reason.
                        Last edited by mbalce; 11-21-2010, 12:51 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: K&N Filter performance?

                          Glad to have everyone's input.

                          I remember the 2000 LX CVs - I didn't realize that they had dual exhausts - when I was looking to replace my 96 CNG CV there were a lot of the 2000 LX models around, I think there was an Orange County taxi company (American??) that went belly up and a lot of the cars were available, especially from a dealer out in Corona. I didn't go with one of those as they were a stripped taxi package with vinyl seats, basic tank package, and I just didn't like the wheels... I ended up with an '02 from a dealer in Kansas, 775 miles on the clock, extended range package, better interior - and a killer price including delivery, the California $3,000 rebate didn't hurt either.

                          I appreciate the thoughts on the K&N and think that on balance I won't go with that modification. The Marauder airbox and 80mm MAF is still under consideration, but I hear those are hard to come by, so I will keep an eye open and see what happens - will the larger MAF create any conflicts with the standard set up? Sorry, but this stuff is a little beyond me.

                          For the moment I think I will take a look at the dual exhaust upgrade. I don't think my CV has lost any power, and fuel consumption is pretty constant - about 18 with mixed driving and 23 ish on a steady highway cruise - the most I ever got was a touch over 300, fuel light on, white knuckles and cold sweat.

                          I notice there is a lot of debate about the CV PI in the gasoline world as well - yes it has more power, no it doesn't... I read an article that took a PI and tested it alongside a regular CV - the regular CV had quicker 0 - 60 (barely), but the PI had better mid-range and top end (again only marginally); who knows how scientific these tests are? I think the PI is just a heavy duty version designed to take a beating.

                          I am jealous of your Town Car, more so because they are almost impossible to find. In 2008 Clean Energy sold a few TCs and Mercury Grand Marquis for killer deals, but only to fleets. I really want a CNG Tahoe, but it would have to be CARB approved and eligible for the carpool, but that's another story...

                          "Though my wife tells me we need more cars like I need more holes in my head" - are we married to the same woman? Who knew there was a limit to the amount of vehicles one is allowed to own...

                          Lakewood, no offense taken - just pointing out how it could seem

                          I am not looking for a drag racer - but if the consensus is that I could gain enough HP from an exhaust mod to make a small, but noticeable difference, then I think I will go forward.

                          Thanks for the information.
                          Last edited by Londoner; 11-21-2010, 05:29 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: K&N Filter performance?

                            it is a air pump I am not a fan of k+n but I have never not gotten a noticeable hp boost from getting rid of stock single ex and putting duels now in the land of carb I dont know you can do but atleast go 2.5 inchs and big mufflers and if you have to keep those silly cats biiiiiiiig is the word remember there is no reson to go to the through this and not use big parts it costs very little more to go 2.5 instead of 2 inch more air in and out the more power. now living in tennessee I would have 2.5 inch pipes and cherry bombs 36 inchs long all the way out the back you all remember them? sounds so good LOL

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: K&N Filter performance?

                              I don't see how a filter change could affect the fuel economy of an OBDII vehicle. The PCM compensates for air filter constriction by adjusting the fuel trims and this can be positive or negative. I can see low restriction filters causing a small improvement in power by allowing the combustion chamber's air density to increase (more oxygen molecules) but the cost would be a potential increase in dust getting past the filter. The tradeoff would be a small increase in power for potentially shorter engine life. See BITOG Air Filtration Test (sorry, can't provide link yet but you can Google it).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: K&N Filter performance?

                                here's the link... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
                                2008 GX (extended range, trunkless version)
                                Polished Metal Metallic 2012 Civic Natural Gas
                                Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36 (since 2001)
                                Previously owned: 2000 GX (11 years), 1995 Bi-fuel Sonoma, 2000 Bifuel Tahoe, 2000 Bi-fuel F150

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X