CNG Cost difference

[Surfman]

Why 63 cents in Utah and then $2 + dollars everywhere else? Plus, how come in Wa state, CNG is not available to the public?

[cngaz]

Re: CNG Cost difference

Difference between states & policies, the difference between utility policies, difference in sources, difference in suppliers and who is pumping the gas, difference in utility regulation.

My first question would be did you ask your state the same question?

[rtry9a]

Re: CNG Cost difference

I suspect a lot of the reason is that Utah is very conservative, Washington is not.

[cnielsen]

Re: CNG Cost difference

Utah has a regulated monopoly. Of course, when they try to do what is best for you and me, prices seem to go high.

Not only that, Questar owns and operates most of the wells which reduces the amount bought on the spot market.

[Bender]

Re: CNG Cost difference

I suspect a lot of the reason is that Utah is very conservative, Washington is not.

Kinda funny huh. Utahns are very conservative at the election booths. But when it comes to government intervention at the CNG filling station, they are grinnin' ear to ear with all the liberal intervention.

[Steve]

Re: CNG Cost difference

Questar is the local natural gas utility which is regulated by the state and as a result of the pumps being owned by Questar, the fuel that the pumps dispense is also regulated. As far as I can tell, the utilities are still making a profit even at these rates.

[ch4]

Re: CNG Cost difference

Utah has a regulated monopoly. Of course, when they try to do what is best for you and me, prices seem to go high.

Not only that, Questar owns and operates most of the wells which reduces the amount bought on the spot market.

In 1987 I wish I would've invested in this regulated monopoly.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=STR#chart1:symbol=str;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

More info
http://www.psc.state.ut.us/faq/index.html search on questar

"Q: Why doesn't the Commission doing anything about the high price of natural gas?
A: Recent rate increases are driven by increases in the wholesale price of natural gas which are determined by its market value.

One strategy Questar Gas Company uses to manage its natural gas costs is to produce about half of the natural gas that it supplies to Utah customers from wells it owns. In response to a settlement between state regulators, consumer advocates and Questar Gas Company, the Commission required Questar Gas Company to retain its own production capability in the 1980’s. Company-produced natural gas is provided to customers at cost rather than at market value; the cost of company-owned gas is currently far below market value and this supply helps keep rates lower and more stable than otherwise. However, there is not enough company-owned natural gas to meet all of Utah’s demand for natural gas. Questar Gas Company purchases the balance of its natural gas supply from the wholesale market and provides this gas to customers at the purchase cost with no markup."


Stockholders make money, company makes money, customers are treated well.
Yep, this is definitely a problem.

[Idarusskie]

Re: CNG Cost difference

so in other words the rate payer help drill the wells that fill your cars.

[Blueflame]

Re: CNG Cost difference

I remember I was living in Seattle in the 90's and the city was on the environmental hit list because it had some of the cheapest electrical power in the country. Seattle and the city of Edmonton built a series of hydro-electric dams along the Skagit River long ago to power the two cities and then sold the surplus power to Southern California. My apartment electric bill worked out to around 5.50 a month. The environmentalists said Seattle City Light's cheap electric power encouraged waste. I wonder if they ever solved that problem.

Anyway, maybe we could trade you NW guys some of your cheap electricity for some of our cheap NG. Summer is coming and my electric bill is about to go up!

[ch4]

Re: CNG Cost difference

so in other words the rate payer help drill the wells that fill your cars.

For all you crazy capitalist out there...
I know, socialism is evil.

If you work out the therm rate in terms of GGE, with the Clean Fuel federal credit, there is NO subsidy.
We, us car guys, pay the same rate that you, un-cars guys, pay for home heating.

Yry Ave is 6$ / Dth ==> 60ct / therm
1.28 therms = 1 GGE
so my 5.5 GGE fill up should cost me about $3.50, with the Clean Fuel federal credit, and it does.

You do not understand how much the OPEC and the Big Oil companies are ripping you off.
They are the monopoly - further they are parasitic.

You do not understand how T Boone became a Billionaire.

The gas is there. You cannot economically store it and there are very few natural gas air conditioners. That's what we need is natural gas air conditioners.

So, during the hot, summer months in the Mountain West, natural gas use drops like a seagull to a trash dump. And given market conditions, the price also goes down because there is NO inventory.

[Idarusskie]

Re: CNG Cost difference

yes but that helium 100 year supply would shrink real fast if they ever started using it to cool nuke reactors such as the pebble bead design

[CNG4RD]

Re: CNG Cost difference

I live in Utah and just bought a Ford Contour because my daily commute had jumped from 8 miles to 45+

Here are some number comparisons for you all to ponder:

Old vehicle

Ford Explorer

Average miles per gallon of Gas was 15.8, over the course of a week
Miles driven per week - averaged 300 miles per week
Gallons consumed per week - 19
Cost of gas per week - @ 3.65 gallon (higher now btw) = $69.30
Miles per dollar in explorer = 4.33

new vehicle

Ford Contour (bi-fuel, running cng only for a week)

Average miles per gge was 25.07, over the course of a week
Miles driven per week - 300 miles per week
Gallons consumed per week - 12
Cost of cng - @ .64 = $7.66
Miles per dollar in contour= 39.17

That is $296.62 a month in the exploder and $32.78 a month in the contour. I am now saving 263.84 a MONTH! in fuel costs. And I will be switching my wife's van for cng next month, so double that.

BTW, I am in full support of regulation of gasoline and cng for that matter. When a core component to our economy is subjected to such crazy price fluctuations as we have seen in gasoline, panic price changes can bring the economy down. I don't think our government should let that happen. Sorry pure capitalism has shown weakness in the past with Monopolies and the like, so something has to give.

As for cng, it has far less pollutants, and I really cannot see a reason that our government doesn't push this fuel source more, come one washington PUSH CNG VEHICLES HARD.

Yes, I would gladly pay more at the pump if everyone drove CNG, the smog in SLC is HORRIBLE. I would pay more than gas prices to have it gone, in a heart beat.

One last thing, I ordered a civic gx for November, even if gas plummets, it won't beat cng in the forseeable future.

[Curtis]

Re: CNG Cost difference

You missed one... Your cng car/s are now purifying the air that your gas guzzlers polluted in the first place. You're offsetting your own carbon footprint, good job.

[Devo]

Re: CNG Cost difference

CNG is available in WA, I just fueled up in Tacoma on Saturday. There are four stations open to the public. Check http://www.cngprices.com

(Yes, I know I swore I'd never fuel at Clean Energy ... ugh ... but $2.75 was still cheaper than $4.00.)