H-cng ?

[Larryect]

Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the Hydrogen enriched compressed Natural Gas (H/CNG) is?

It is sold at the Las Vegas Ronemus station.

Thanks

[Jennifer]

Re: H-cng ?

HCNG has lower emissions than regular CNG. You can really make an improvement in the NOx emissions of CNG by blending in a little H2.

It's also touted as a bridge fuel to the future hydrogen economy. Helps people get experience with H2 and gaseous fuels, without all the expense of pure hydrogen, etc.

[ch4]

Re: H-cng ?

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas_blends.html

"Hydrogen/Natural Gas (HCNG) Fuel Blends

Natural gas can be blended with hydrogen to make HCNG. Vehicles fueled with hydrogen/natural gas blends (HCNG) are an initial step toward the hydrogen-based transportation of the future. HCNG vehicles offer the potential for immediate emissions benefits, such as a reduction in nitrogen oxides (NOx) emissions. At the same time, they can pave the way for a transition to fuel cell vehicles by building early demand for hydrogen infrastructure."

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5660602-description.html

[ch4]

Re: H-cng ?

HCNG has lower emissions than regular CNG. You can really make an improvement in the NOx emissions of CNG by blending in a little H2.

It's also touted as a bridge fuel to the future hydrogen economy. Helps people get experience with H2 and gaseous fuels, without all the expense of pure hydrogen, etc.

Wow! Inherently low emissions. One of the lowest NOx fuels on the planet and we can make it better. Unbelievable.

[Larryect]

Re: H-cng ?

Sounds interesting. It looks to be a trial project with modified vehicles. Am I right to believe I would probably not want to try it in my GX?

[cngaz]

Re: H-cng ?

APS before they fenced their station offered the mix to the public in Phoenix.
You could use up to a 20% mix of hydrogen with no modifications and it actually helped the CNG run smoother.

[Larryect]

Re: H-cng ?

APS before they fenced their station offered the mix to the public in Phoenix.
You could use up to a 20% mix of hydrogen with no modifications and it actually helped the CNG run smoother.

Now that is interesting. How would the range be affected?

It has probably been a year or more since I went by the Las Vegas station and I saw a pump there for it. I don't know if the nozzles were the same or any detail. But, I just wonder if it would be an option and if the range would be better or worse.

[cngaz]

Re: H-cng ?

No change in mileage, maybe a little less, but ran a lot cleaner!
Over 20% you had to move to a hydrogen Nozzle not compatible with a NGV.

[Larryect]

Re: H-cng ?

Thanks for the info

[Curtis]

Re: H-cng ?

All of the aforementioned answers are dead-on. I've seen studies of blends from 7% to 50% and the emissions improvement is noteable.

The blend gives a bit more power, as H2 is a higher energy content fuel. I read in one of the forums where a gentleman running his GX on it reported getting slightly less gas mileage, which I didn't understand. And, yes, the GX handles blends up to 20% with no modifications to the engine. The computer compensates for the leaner mix.

The main reason for the blend is that, as stated, it's a bridge fuel. There are so few vehicles running on it that there would be little justification for the expense of an H2 station based on demand. It is used in bus' quite widely (where available) for it's reduced NOx benefite.

[John Mitton]

Re: H-cng ?

It is sold at the Las Vegas Ronemus station.

Is that the same pump located to the far left once you pass the bank of biodiesel (the one that someone has written with a permanent marker #1 and #2 on the card reader)? Didn't know it was a hydrogen blend. Someone told me Barstow is also a blend?

[Larryect]

Re: H-cng ?

Not sure. It has been a long time and at the time I was not driving my Civic so I did not fill up. I was just checking out stations. Seems to me it was sort of off to the side near the corner of some fencing. It seems to me they had straight hydrogen as well.

Maybe someone more familiar with Vegas could help us figure it out.

[Caradoc]

Re: H-cng ?

With natural gas being mostly methane (CH4), our power comes from the four hydrogen atoms per molecule with the carbon being oxidized to CO2. It figures that adding some H2 to the mix would do nothing but add power while diluting the CO2 count since the H2 oxidized into water vapor. So, I'd think that any change in mileage would be an improvement.

Just one guy's opinion....

[ajgiorgi]

Re: H-cng ?

Was the price the same or did you have to pay a premium for the mix? For you that have bought the mix. Supposedly, Hydrogen will be five dollars a gallon. I think I heard that on the Jay Leno website when he test drove the Honda FCX.

[camryman]

Re: H-cng ?

When my tank expires in a few years can I replace my 3600psi tank with a 5000psi hydrogen tank and put in 3600psi CNG and then top off with 5000psi hydorgen? Would this work? I would have to have two fill nozzles one for H one for CNG.