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  • Fire Issue

    What are the fire issues on a NGV? Are they more or less than a gasoline vehicle?
    How does it play with a vehicle converted to CNG and still runs on gasoline, does this double the fire issue?

    To me, I would think there would be less a chance of a fire as the natural gas would just dissipate into the air???? Unless there is direct flame to the leak what problem would there be?

  • #2
    Re: Fire Issue

    Im not an expert on this (there are plenty more people on this board that know more) - but here is what I know. You are right on the gas dissipation. if there is a leak, then the gas dissipates into the atmosphere (if there is a gas leak then you have a puddle of flammable fluid). Moreover, it takes a very specific air/natural gas ratio for the natural gas to burn - so it is harder to ignite in the atmosphere. Also the tanks have to be certified to certain specifications where stamped steel gas tanks can leak more easily in an accident.

    I wouldnt say that there is a "double" the risk of fire with a dual-fuel vehicle, but I guess it would be more of a risk.

    -Alex

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    • #3
      Re: Fire Issue

      I don't think the tank is the issue, the fuel lines might be though???
      Not having done enough research on it, are the fuel lines hard or soft?

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      • #4
        Re: Fire Issue

        NGV's are among the safest vehicles in the world, you will not find a more thoroughly tested fuel tank.
        The Honda GX has a 5 star crash test rating
        Natural gas is lighter than air and dissipates in the atmoshpere
        It takes a higher air fuel mixture than gasoline to ignite.
        Never pools or puddles like gasoline or propane.
        Dave Clement

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        • #5
          Re: Fire Issue

          Now LNG has some other risks. Such as frost bite. cyro hazards. in the event of a spill there there is a puddle which evaporates and then dissipates. In a car the spill will not be very much. If you have a large fueling station then the cloud would be significant. It is orderless ( odorant is added in compressed natural gas). so small leak could be a problem. You can compensate with gas detectors. With LNG you can put more in the same size tank as compressed gas. But the tank has to be insulated really well or you use the fuel right away.

          in my opinion CNG and LNG are as safe a gasoline.

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          • #6
            Re: Fire Issue

            Reason I asked is on another non natural gas forum I got a reply about converting a Land Cruiser.
            "Interesting that this is coming up, i just received a powerpoint training program about car fires with CNG systems.
            The program concerned a CNG Honda which exploded in Seattle in '07. The car was set on fire (arson) and
            the type 4 composite tank literally exploded (didn't vent properly) The car
            was completely destroyed with pieces landing 100 ft. away.
            This was a factory CNG car. (not a kit)"

            My wife read it and now says NO to CNG.
            Now I need to solve that probpem

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            • #7
              Re: Fire Issue

              I am sure there are people more knowledgeable about this. But, from what I read in the recall notice that Honda sent out, that case was caused by some one starting a fire in the back seat of the car. I guess the Honda engineers had not thought of that particular scenario....
              Apparently the failure was caused by the intense heat in a small localized area causing a tank rupture before the pressure built up to cause the safety valve from venting.

              So, they have issued a recall and are installing an insulation blanket in case someone else decides to use the backseat for a campfire..

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              • #8
                Re: Fire Issue

                sounds similar to a BLEVE (boiling liquid expanding vapor fire). Understanding that CNG is NOT a liquid but the principle is the same. Tell your wife she can not have any propane fired grills any more. We had a guy at work( a fire professional at that) burn his house down by starting his newly lacquered deck on fire under his propane grill tank. The tank did not BLEVE only because it was full but it rocked through his bedroom window and filled his empty bed with propane.


                try setting a fire under a gasoline tank and see what happens to the car. remember all those movie where they just get out in time before car explodes.

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                • #9
                  Re: Fire Issue

                  Originally posted by landtoy80 View Post
                  Reason I asked is on another non natural gas forum I got a reply about converting a Land Cruiser.
                  "Interesting that this is coming up, i just received a powerpoint training program about car fires with CNG systems.
                  The program concerned a CNG Honda which exploded in Seattle in '07. The car was set on fire (arson) and
                  the type 4 composite tank literally exploded (didn't vent properly) The car
                  was completely destroyed with pieces landing 100 ft. away.
                  This was a factory CNG car. (not a kit)"

                  My wife read it and now says NO to CNG.
                  Now I need to solve that probpem
                  This is the only known incident of a fire in a CNG vehicle - and it was caused by arson. In spite of this, Honda issued a recall and will retrofit vehicles to protect from this type of arson.

                  Compare that to the number of vehicle fires in gasoline vehicles... If your wife was really concerned about fires from fuel systems - then she would be demanding that you buy a CNG vehicle.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Fire Issue

                    I tried to explain to her how safe the NGV is be she refuses to budge and says she will never set foot in NGV.
                    She says there is no reason to get a NGV as her Pinto runs just fine

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glcj0...eature=related
                    Last edited by Timon; 04-29-2008, 03:02 AM. Reason: added vBcode for youtube

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                    • #11
                      Re: Fire Issue

                      Have her watch this video.

                      http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...24839807682996



                      I think it will solve your problem.
                      Last edited by Timon; 04-29-2008, 03:03 AM. Reason: Added vBcode for googlevideo
                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4586_1441434431016_578[/ATTACH]

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                      • #12
                        Re: Fire Issue

                        Here's the draft report on the Seattle explosion. The full report is over 6 MB (the board limit is 5 MB). PM me with your email address if you'd like it.
                        Attached Files
                        BiggJohn
                        -------------------
                        2000 CNG Camry
                        VRA Wannabe

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                        • #13
                          Re: Fire Issue

                          That U Tube video of the pinto is funny and I don't care what type of fuel you are using..

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fire Issue

                            LOL, that Pinto video is awesome.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Fire Issue

                              Wow, amazing pictures. I doubt that would help win the argument though....

                              Comment

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