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When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tampering?

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  • When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tampering?

    When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tampering?
    As I see it is EPA stuff or the High Way so at what point do you stop trying?
    I believe you can never stop making things better, safer and just work right. So the last few years I have been working with just VWs and inventing ways to make them work as a CNG BI-Fuel concept system. They run cleaner on CNG out the tail pipe and I have gotten 40 MPG on CNG out of a 2002 VW Jetta 1.8L Gasoline TURBO driving it hard and it sets is readiness for OBII by its self on CNG with out reprogram the ECU.

    We have all learned here that if we do not change with the times and it is a day to day thing now we will lose what is dear to us.
    So what is tampering Webster’s says interfere (with) improperly meddle.
    Interfere =meddle; clash; Meddle= interfere, busy one’s self with unnecessarily. Could not find improperly but found proper so the im in front means the opposite of = own, peculiar, individual, suitable; conforming to etiquette. I still do not understand what they mean.
    But when the EPA wrote this a very long time ago when times were good and the country was making money and we all thought it would never change but it did.
    Tampering = Do not change the tail pipe emission readings to go above the limits that are set by the EPA for these car, truck, weight, year and class of vehicles.

    This may not be the right site for this but time will tell.

    I have worked with some low cost and safe kits can’t say there names here and found them to work. Took a lot of time to get them right my first was 1999 VW Beetle with a 2L got about 30+ miles to the GAL or GGE a little over 100 to the tank at 60 cent a GAL .Yes I fill up at home love it so I am doing my part to stop my need for over seas oil.

    As a BI-FUEL concept commuter car I can go 100+ a day on CNG and than keep going on gasoline when I run out of CNG this is at 3000PSI.

    For the big break through was on the 2001VW Jetta 1.8L Gasoline Turbo. I do have a site with a lot of information on these cars. By making up the CNG FOGGER I am getting the Turbo to run great and really pushing the MPG to a new limit with supper lower then stock emissions.
    Bob Mann
    Last edited by CNGvw; 11-26-2009, 08:17 PM.

  • #2
    Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

    Welcome Bob, I'm always interested in seeing improvement in the emission numbers, especially if there is better fuel economy

    What kind of improvement in the 5 gas numbers are you getting? How are you conducting the emission check; Dyno, mobile 5 gas, and the type test; IM-240, ASM?

    Larrycng

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    • #3
      Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

      And if you are serious about it, and genuinely are improving the emissions, why don't YOU get it certified and sell the kits legally? This may become an easier proposition (for Non-CARB states, at least) if the current legislation gets passed easing the annual re-cert requirements.

      Then, you just have to make a CNG mixing system for my already 40mpg TDI Jetta, and I'll be driving for practically free. ;-)
      1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
      2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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      • #4
        Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

        Hello for the 5 gas testing I have done back to back 5 gas steady state idle, 1000 ,2000, 3000, RPM and load. For the 5 gas testers at one point in my life I designed and wrote the first window base portable software with true GPM conversions that worked for an analyzer named S P A build it for SNAP off.

        At one point I will have my stuff EPA tested and certified when its cost justifies the label.

        For the diesels you should check out my post at Freds, over 3000+ views and 120+ posts in 14 days. I am working on a diesel plan using the CNG FOGGER to do the blending of CNG to the TDI.
        So at this point I can not post any pic from my site but I did loaded some and do not wish to promote my site I think that is in the rules of this site. I am not selling any thing but a open mined.
        Thank you for reading
        Bob Mann
        The CNG FOGGER the CNG FOGGER installed
        Attached Files
        Last edited by CNGvw; 11-27-2009, 07:43 AM. Reason: I can add pic just not the my site

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

          I love to see the details about your system. Will you share your website address?

          The EPA is an obstacle that should be eliminated or ignored imho. A bunch of ideology driven political hacks and buttkissers, who retard positive developmental efforts in order to maintain control over our lives.

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          • #6
            Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

            Interesting set-up. Brings back some ooold memories. Looks like, with the proper programming you would have good delivery control. One of best air valve mixers, (OHG) used the circumfrential venturi design and it works good. I have one the mixers for the LP system on my F-250.

            Don't let the want to be, un-informed, environmentalists get you down.

            Good luck

            Larrycng

            Comment


            • #7
              Lab info

              Welcome to CNGchat, Bob.
              Believe me, the Holy Grail in the marketplace will be a certified CNG-Diesel blended system. But the problem seems to be once you start blending the fuels the vehicle becomes a NOx monster.

              If it were me, probably the first step would be to head to one of the labs on the attached list and run two FTP75 urban driving cycles to see how the emissions profile looks on both the original fuel configuration and also with the CNG setup. I would ask them to install thermocouples pre and mid catalyst to monitor temperatures during the drive trace. This will set you back about $2,000 but at that point you will know if it is worthwhile investing in a cert.

              Now, if you think EPA and CARB take a strong stance on alternative fuel conversion requirements, wait until you find out what MA feels about all of this. Evidently the Commonwealth of Massachusetts uses far more information from the OBD system than SAE mandates, and they see some potential issues – which could also result in a failure mode of even the CARB kits. I can't go into detail due to confidentiality requirements suffice it to say if it were not for the Clean Air Act requiring states to adopt either EPA or CARB then MA would be out with its own additional regulations covering vehicle emissions and OBD control requirements for all vehicles -- alternative fuel conversions included.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

                Thank you for your kind posts. I have worked with the EPA over the years there new groups are little more open minded I hope.
                My site is the same as my name .com can not post it . if you read some of my stuff you will see a have my own way back machine. For the Jetta Turbo CNG BI-FUEL it drives like a dream all the power in the world and smokes any Hybrid out there. When was showing my cars at altwheels show I try to get them to race no takers.
                Bob Mann
                Attached Files
                Last edited by CNGvw; 11-27-2009, 11:02 AM. Reason: spelling

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: When you invent a way to make a CNG BI-Fuel EPA system work better is that tamper

                  Thank you for the list John some of the contacts I remember. I do have the temps sensors found a great sources for them and cheap have installed the hook up on the 2001 VW Beetle 1.8L TURBO right in the ex manifold as it enters the turbo will use this for fuel trim. For the cats VW scanner software lets you see cat temps before and after live use that lot. But as I have tested on the Jetta it go’s right through readiness on CNG ever time with out any check engine lights and no reprogramming the ECU and no cutting into the front or rear O2 sensors.

                  I know we can do better on our thirst for over seas oil B-FUEL cars do work this will but
                  5000 people to work just in the Boston MA and slow our need for oil down to were we can catch our breath with some clean air.

                  I must say the EPA has done a good job but now do you wish to put people to work in the USA or follow a path that was laid out way back when thing were different. It is about Clean Air and safety this is some of the thing that are on minds of
                  John Kerry U.S. Senate
                  Paul Kirk U.S. Senate
                  William D. Delahunt U.S. House of Representatives
                  See I do have a plan it dos work just need a little help.
                  Bob Mann

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