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Honda will be releasing it's next generation FCX in the fall of 2008. Twenty, or so, FCX's will make it to Honda showrooms and be available to the public towards the end of the year. The car is expected to come with the Honda Hydrogen Home Refueling Station, which will produce fuel for the car off of the home gas supply. A by-product of home refueling is electricity. The home unit is expected to produce enough electricity to run an average sized home and heat your water too. In So Cal this will qualify you for the gas companies home refueling rates, just like the Phill HRA does now. Wide release of Honda's Hydrogen vehicles is not expected until around 2018. See pics here: http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/gro...os/browse/4d80
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
A Hydrogen Home Refueling Station is a really dumb idea. Why convert natural gas to hydrogen rather than use the natural gas directly. It would make more sense to design a methane fuel cell. I'll believe the cost advantage with I see it but I bet the GGE price will be MUCH higher than CNG.John
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
Now if they can make the solar cell-powered hydrogen refueling happen, that will be great. But what about our friends in the Pacific NW?
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
Using natural gas to make hydrogen works but I want to see the numbers. How many therms of natural gas is required to make a GGE of hydrogen. How many kilowatts of power are produced for those same therms, how many btu's are produced for heating? Those questions have to be answered and so far I don't see any answers. I want to believe but I needs some answers first.John
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
I just spoke to Honda and...
1) I won't get any of the FCX's due to a lack of local infrastructure. Although they did say that all the work I do on marketing the GX puts me up there on their list of dealers to be considered... for what that's worth.
2) the car won't be coming out with the HRA as I stated. The Home Station, while still in testing at Torrence, is not ready for release.
3) Probably around 20 cars will be released and all in areas with established established infrastructure (like LA and the Bay area) although they wouldn't tip their hat as to whoexactly would receive them... In spite of the fact that I have standing orders for 2 of them... Oh well, just have to be happy with my GX's. I am working on a rectal refueling system for extended range. I can't say too much about it yet, but does anyone know where you can buy refried beans by the container load... and plastic tubing?Comment
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
Questions and comments:
1) Any idea on the price of the FCX?
2) Any idea on the target price for the HRA?
3a) How many GGE of H do you get for each therm of natural gas.
3b) How many REAL, after compressing the H, KWh do you get to put back into the power GRID for each therm of natural gas?
3c) How many BTUs of heat do you get for each therm of natural gas?
The answers to question 3 will tell if it's worth the cost.
Without the HRA it will never sell. Who is going to pay $8 per GGE for fuel plug have to drive miles and miles to find a place to fuel up? At least with CNG you normally not more then 20 miles from fuel and normally much less.
I'm all for H but not until it can pay for it's self.John
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Re: Next Generation FCX to be released as 2008 model-In limited numbers.
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I would like to point out that making hydrogen from methane is the most efficient way to make it. Unfortunately, it is also this fact that will continue to make H2 powered cars pointless to me. Some rough numbers:Originally posted by Timon View Post
The most effecient SMR (Steam Methane Reformer) units, after taking credit for electricity production from the waste heat, run at about 400-450BTU of feed (CH4) to make 1 scf of H2. 1 scf of H2 has a LHV of 290 BTU. As you can see, this means that you get about a 64-72% efficiency. This is on large scale plants. A smaller home unit would have much lower effeciencies, as it would be less able to make the most of the waste heat.
Overall, the well-to-wheel's efficiency of a fuel-cell h2 vehicle driven from h2 from NG is about 15%. A current CNG ICE vehicle runs aout 16%. This doesn't even take into the fact that current CNG vehicles are considerably cheaper to manufacture, and a hybridized CNG vehicle would be even more efficient.
If you are talking about 'clean' fuels, H2 only qualifies if it is made via electrolysis, which is considerably less efficient than SMR, and is only clean if that electrolysis is powered from 'clean' electricity. It seems that if 'cleanliness' is your desire, than just using that 'clean' electricity to charge an electric car would make much more sense. Plus, all homes in te US already have electricity. Most homes in the US have Natural Gas piped right in. Why the need to build the complicated Hydrogen infrastructure, when these two are so complete already?
I truely believe that the H2 buzzword is really bad for the overall energy balance, and is more a reason for big companies to get massive funding dollars. Marketing for the governments. I believe this completely, and I work for one of these companies.1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--Comment
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Oct 10 2016 - Air Liquide plans to install New York Citys first publicly available hydrogen refueling stations for fuel cell vehicles after signing leases for pump spaces at 668 3rd Ave., in an industrial stretch of Brooklyns Greenwood Heights neighborhood; and at 2274 Tillotson Ave., in the Eastchester section of the Bronx. This is the beginning of plans to build 183 hydrogen stations in NY.
LOS ANGELES, CA--(Marketwired - May 02, 2017) - US Hybrid, Inc., a California based company, today announced its joint venture with Jiangsu Dewei Advanced Materials Co., Ltd, a Chinese company, and unveiled a zero-emission class 8 fuel cell port drayage truck featuring its PEM fuel cell engine during the 2017 ACT Expo at the Long Beach Convention Center. The truck, which will be operated by Total Transportation Solutions, Inc, is one of two demonstration tractors scheduled for delivery at the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.
H2_USHybrid.png.Comment
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Originally posted by 300mileclub View PostOct 10 2016 - Air Liquide plans to install New York Citys first publicly available hydrogen refueling stations for fuel cell vehicles after signing leases for pump spaces at 668 3rd Ave., in an industrial stretch of Brooklyns Greenwood Heights neighborhood; and at 2274 Tillotson Ave., in the Eastchester section of the Bronx. This is the beginning of plans to build 183 hydrogen stations in NY.
LOS ANGELES, CA--(Marketwired - May 02, 2017) - US Hybrid, Inc., a California based company, today announced its joint venture with Jiangsu Dewei Advanced Materials Co., Ltd, a Chinese company, and unveiled a zero-emission class 8 fuel cell port drayage truck featuring its PEM fuel cell engine during the 2017 ACT Expo at the Long Beach Convention Center. The truck, which will be operated by Total Transportation Solutions, Inc, is one of two demonstration tractors scheduled for delivery at the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach.
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This is really interesting! To the future of transportation.Comment
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Well, If you say so.Originally posted by geekyjenny1010 View Post
99 % of the H2 produced is manufactured from methane at oil and chemical refinery's using steam reform.
The best conversion rate is about 58 % under ideal conditions. So we are burning at least 42% of the feed stock , producing co2 , just to produce the H2.
Then add electric compression energy ( about 20 %) from a gas fired power plant running at 40 - 60 % efficiency .
Green ? Hardly.
The only semi green way to produce H2 involves nuclear energy, and lots of it. H2 is great, IF society is willing to use nuclear energy to produce it. Seriously doubt that will happen.
The future IS radical reduction of energy use in all aspects of the first world and developing nations. Near current standard of living is possible using 50% less energy, but at what cost to rebuild the entire energy / manufacturing / transportation and residential infrastructure. Solar , hydro, tidal , and wind could generate about half of current energy use.
My generation will be dead and gone by then, so the younger generations , worldwide, need to think rationally, and reject fairy tale distractions. So good luck.
The fictional cinema character, Spock, opined during his death struggle: " The needs of the many , outweigh the needs of the few, or the one " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqpcmQhnl48
IMHO, few are willing to carry that burden.
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