Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

[Highmarker]

I found this article put out by Central Connecticut State University. See link below.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

Hopefully in the near future, batteries will be developed that don't harm the environment. After reading this article, now I just laugh at all the electric hybrids on the road.

[jkresse]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

It's obvious the poster of this article didn't read it very carefully. Just one simple example: the article assumes the poorly-made Hummer will last for 300,000 miles and the excellently-made Prius will last just 100,000 miles. Just equalize the miles and the cost per mile of the Prius is better than the Hummer. Reverse the miles (a far more likely occurence) and the Prius wins by a mile. Plus, I've read critiques of this article elsewhere that point out that the nickel used in Prius batteries is just a small portion of the mine's output, etc., etc.
The article also talks about the "premium price" of a Prius. For my money, it's a terrific value at $22K.
Yes, my other car is a Prius!
Joe Kresse

[Highmarker]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Joe,

Show me where you've seen a Prius go 300,000 miles without replacing the batteries, and show me where you've seen a Hummer only go 100,000 miles. Toyota themselves state that the batteries have a 100,000 mile lifetime. By the way, what kind of gas mileage do you get in your "excellent-made" Prius with your air conditioner on? The hybrid technology of the Prius is only designed for city driving. In the city it gets excellent gas mileage. However, at highway speeds, the Prius gets the same gas mileage as all other cars (The diesel powered VW Jetti gets 48 mpg). All electric hybrids to date still depend on foreign oil to run. The internal combustion motor in the Prius emits the same emissions as any other gasoline powered vehicle. There have been talks about a CNG or hydrogen electric hybrid, but none are in production yet.

Here's a good example: The state of Utah allowed Prius (and other hybrid cars) owners up to a $3000 "Clean Fuel Vehicle" tax credit. In 2005, the state would not allow hybrids to claim that credit any more. This also eliminated them from driving getting the "Clean Fuel - Clean Vehicle" license plate and driving single in the HOV lane. WHY? Because the Prius and other hybrids don't really cut down on emissions and they don't use a clean fuel like CNG or propane.

Please be careful with your words ("poorly-made" Hummer). We have Hummer owners here (right Murphy!). Of course Murphy had a Hummer that ran on CNG.

PS. Let me know how much it costs to replace AND DISPOSE OF your batteries. Also, it will be interesting to see what the EPA rated mpg is for the Prius in 2008 with the new tests.

It's obvious the poster of this article didn't read it very carefully. Just one simple example: the article assumes the poorly-made Hummer will last for 300,000 miles and the excellently-made Prius will last just 100,000 miles. Just equalize the miles and the cost per mile of the Prius is better than the Hummer. Reverse the miles (a far more likely occurence) and the Prius wins by a mile. Plus, I've read critiques of this article elsewhere that point out that the nickel used in Prius batteries is just a small portion of the mine's output, etc., etc.
The article also talks about the "premium price" of a Prius. For my money, it's a terrific value at $22K.
Yes, my other car is a Prius!
Joe Kresse

[CNG MOTORS]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

That's right! I've got a state issued certificate from Arizona Department of Eviromental Quality (ADEQ) Arizona's version of CARB for those of you in California that shows tailpipe emmission for my CNG H2 Hummer. It registered 0.00 carbon monixide out of the tailpipe. I attend auctions pretty much everyday and there are already a few 2003 H2's well over 100k miles. I get 13mpg in my H2 yes, but it can haul my boat/trailer/ and kids. If i needed 2 Prius to do the work of one SUV (less the towing aspect) am I really better off. That brings me down to 25 mpg with the cost of the two hybrids and now I have two drivers insured on two cars. Prius smius I say

[sixb]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The cost of converting a hummer to cng would buy how many batteries? Also most cars will go far more miles than 100k these days regaurdless of the maker. Oh yea my 1 ton dodge puts out a big enough plume of smoke to engulf both cars. J/K

[Luke]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The cost of converting a hummer to cng would buy how many batteries? Also most cars will go far more miles than 100k these days regaurdless of the maker. Oh yea my 1 ton dodge puts out a big enough plume of smoke to engulf both cars. J/K

It seems like the article focused on the environmental impact of a Prius versus a Hummer; your post seemed to emphasize the economic costs associated with conversion. When you put everything on the same basis hybrid SUV vs CNG SUV , the CNG powered vehicle wins hands down in environmental impact. The cost savings of CNG are only significant for those traveling a fair number of miles. There are those that are economically motivated and others that are environmentally motivated; the beauty of CNG (especially in Utah) is that it appeals to both groups. One must need to be willing to plan ahead for refueling when driving a CNG vehicle, especially if it is dedicated.

[peakay]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The Prius vs. Hummer article is thought provoking, but seems inherently biased to me. As for battery pack life, I've seen many Honda Insights (remember - this was the first hybrid) with well over 100k miles and very little maintenance.

From what I've heard, hybrid batteries are lasting well beyond 100k and I don't think we know the true life expectancy yet. Personally, I would expect a prius to last at least as long as any Hummer.

[Derek]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

I have a 1994 Ford Bronco with 175,000 miles on it and it still runs and drives beautifully, even after all of the heavy off-roading. I'm SURE that a Hummer can do as well if not better, especially being newer!

[j03j03]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

The cost of converting a hummer to cng would buy how many batteries?

Your kidding me right? Okay let me lay this out for you. Ahem, say you convert an H2, for the conversion your looking about $10,000. Give or take. Now if you did convert in the state of Utah you get $3,000 tax credit. You get an addtional $2,500 federal. So your getting $5,500 of your $10,000 back. Right? Unless my math is wrong...anyway, for the dealer to install a new battery pack is about $3,000. (And yes it only lasts about 100k.) Now if you consider that a NGV engine's predicted life span is over 300k you would have to do that at 100k, and 200k for the Prius. $6,000 dollars right? So $6,000 compaired to $4,500. Hmm, hard choice.

So to answer your question: one.

[John Mitton]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

For the record, the Utah conversion credit is 1/2 the incremental cost up to $2,500. Some state incentives are even higher with no cap, esp. Colorado

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/incentives_laws.html

[j03j03]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Your right, it used to be $3,000.

[taigacarol]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Your kidding me right? Okay let me lay this out for you. Ahem, say you convert an H2, for the conversion your looking about $10,000. Give or take. Now if you did convert in the state of Utah you get $3,000 tax credit. You get an addtional $2,500 federal. So your getting $5,500 of your $10,000 back. Right? Unless my math is wrong...anyway, for the dealer to install a new battery pack is about $3,000. (And yes it only lasts about 100k.) Now if you consider that a NGV engine's predicted life span is over 300k you would have to do that at 100k, and 200k for the Prius. $6,000 dollars right? So $6,000 compaired to $4,500. Hmm, hard choice.

So to answer your question: one.

Don't forget to factor in the additional fuel savings with the CNG vs Gasoline and oh yeah - what about those emissions?

[CNG MOTORS]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Tell me how you're liking that Prius when gas hits $5/gallon. Hey they said $100 oil was crazy too. With the road tax and state fees, ect, my NG gas bill from home was $1.43/gallon when I convert therms into gallons, last month

[ch4]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Tell me how you're liking that Prius when gas hits $5/gallon. Hey they said $100 oil was crazy too. With the road tax and state fees, ect, my NG gas bill from home was $1.43/gallon when I convert therms into gallons, last month

It not that we don't like and respect Prius owners. Well - actually we don't.
Since when is gas a clean-burning fuel. OK. They only use 40% less dirty burning gas (being conservative) of a say Corolla. But it is not clean.

So, I go to the EPA website and get the methodology of EPA emissions testing.
Guess What? The test does not start until a mandatory 10 min idle and drive around the track. Guess When a Catalitic Converter does not work - Yep, when you start the car. The Converter has to get up to temp to work. In the mean time all that nasty pollution goes right out the tail-pipe of the Prius.

Further, the EPA testing in in OHIO in the Summer. So, unlike Utah in the Winter the Catalytic converter works alot faster.

Yes, there is a reason most/all car companies are using the - Ahemm... extrapolation of the old results instead of actually testing the cars with the new EPA tests NOW.

Now, given most car trips are less then 10 miles the Prius is looking a bit less green for the world and more green for Toyota.

And why does AAA have a Class to teach you how to drive a Prius - We all did that in High School.

[sixb]

Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Your kidding me right? Okay let me lay this out for you. Ahem, say you convert an H2, for the conversion your looking about $10,000. Give or take. Now if you did convert in the state of Utah you get $3,000 tax credit. You get an addtional $2,500 federal. So your getting $5,500 of your $10,000 back. Right? Unless my math is wrong...anyway, for the dealer to install a new battery pack is about $3,000. (And yes it only lasts about 100k.) Now if you consider that a NGV engine's predicted life span is over 300k you would have to do that at 100k, and 200k for the Prius. $6,000 dollars right? So $6,000 compaired to $4,500. Hmm, hard choice.

So to answer your question: one.

Well your wrong on the state tax credit, hmmmmm, should I take your word for the conversion cost, the battery pack cost and life span, predicted life span on both hummer and the prius, I think not. I will make a prediction of my own. I bet the tank on that hummer is so small he has to run high octane unleaded gas half the time anywayand why not he obviously has lots of money