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Propane Fueled Vehicles

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  • Franz
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Uh, Proper Pane, there are tons of Propane powered vehicles on the road, and LPG IS Propane. According to the World LPG Association in Paris, there are approximately 3 times as many vehicles being converted in Europe to propane (called Autogas there) than there are with CNG, although that gap has narrowed slightly in the last year. Almost every European OEM offers an Autogas upfit at their dealerships, including Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Fiat, and so on. Here in the US, the gap between CNG and LPG vehicles is also narrowing, mostly due to the push for CNG conversions and increased availability of CNG stations.

    At last count in the US, and it depends who you are speak with, there are somewhere between 2 to 3 times the number of LPG to CNG vehicles. There is a place for both CNG and LPG vehicles and each provide unique benefits, and have similar limitations, the most common are fueling locations while in transit. For example, where I live, there are two CNG stations, both of which are almost 30 miles away, the next closest is 80 miles. They are unattended which mean I can get fuel there anytime I am nearby, but its a 60 mile round trip from home. By contrast, there are 4 propane fuel providers within 10 miles of me but they are only available during business hours and till noon on Saturday.

    As for computers and sensors not working with LPG, I'm not sure who is feeding you that line or where you heard that from. In order to be OBD-II compliant, which practically every gaseous fuel injection system is these days, OEM sensors are utilized to provide engine output signals for the vehicles computer PCM which then controls the LPG slave PCM for injector pulsewidth. Many suppliers provide the same slave PCM for CNG and LPG, the conversion technician selects CNG or LPG during programming.

    Franz Hofmann
    President, Gearhead Consulting, LLC

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  • Amfuel
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    LPG = Propane

    Here are the fuel prices in our area.

    Kwik-price-sign.jpg

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  • proper pane
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    you won't see any new vehicles on the market running on propane because the computer and sensors won't work with propane..... i think lpg stands for liquid petroleum gas which is not propane.
    not sure but it might natural gas with a splash of butane.
    cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • John Mitton
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Roush certified to ULEV (2WD F-150) and LEV II (4WD version) so no HOV sticker.
    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/...4_b4u2_lpg.pdf
    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/...5d4_l2_lpg.pdf
    Last edited by John Mitton; 08-30-2009, 06:53 PM.

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  • Lakewood90712
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    If this Beast is California "SULEV" , it should qualify for the carpool lane.

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  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Since it is CARB approved you shouldn't have to wait for 7,000 miles -- its all in the EO number.

    Larrycng

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  • cheapergas
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    And Roush gets carb approval
    http://green.autoblog.com/2009/04/13...npage_autoblog

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  • cheapergas
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    LPG is cheap up where I live. Santa Rosa, CA
    They charge you $2.60 if they have to pump it but they have a card system and I can use it 24h. Charge $1.90 right now. Roush is epa legal which means if you can find one with 7K on the odo it can be brought to cali.
    There has been talk of alt and bi fuel vehicles receiving incentives in cali lately but that was right before the meltdown. Will have to quit giving free medical benefits to illegals to afford that. But that is not pc!

    Leave a comment:


  • Wellarmed
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    I agree with Franz. The installation of curtis's system is legal as long as the LPG system had a carb EO# at the time of its manufacturer. It generally will be displayed on a decal that most mechanics put in the glove box of the vehicle. And the overbore is acceptable with in limits, but a change in the (effective) compression ratio is not (this has not been thoroughly address in my mind, because the overbore effectively raises compression even when using a factory replacement piston). The camshaft can also be swapped out for a better configuration as long as it carries an EO#. I have never heard of anyone calling someone to the plate for a violation, but if an officer stops you because your vehicle sounds like a top fuel car, he can issue a citation that would require you to see a referee ( Even if the vehicle does not require mandatory emission testing ). At that point you are guilty until proven innocent and must show that the aftermarket parts installed, carry an EO#. Never mind the fact that I have seen many Alternative fueled vehicles that operated far cleaner than the factory gasoline system. If Curtis's system is of the feed back variety, then it should run remarkably cleaner than the gasoline system it replaced. I would definately like to see some Don Gartlits style, sideways smoking, burnout photos when it is done!

    Leave a comment:


  • Franz
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Sigh, here we go again.

    The EPA has no authority over a vehicles installation safety, only the emissions. Enforcement falls under state and local safety jurisdiction and the federal Department of Transportation.

    Propane cylinders typically are under 200 psig, less than an air conditioning system. Fuel lines and fittings are rated for 5 times pressure (5 times 350 psig, or 1750 psig burst). LPG and CNG cylinders are rated for 4 times max pressure to be certified for use. In both cases, a properly installed fuel cylinder is an enhancement to the vehicle's safety structure, not a detriment. The key is properly installed, not plumbers strap or sheet metal screws.

    As for upsizing an engine, both the EPA and CARB recognize engine rebuilding and service repairs (for example, an overbore on a stock engine, or a stroker within service limits). Putting in a 454 where a 4.3 was is not within service limits obviously, but a like engine resize could be. Lot more emphasis is on headers, camshafts, intakes, carbs, than with engine size.

    In my case, a 383 SB Chevy looks identical on the outside as a 262 or a 267 (1978 and up Chev malibu and some Caprice's). To most people, a 396 looks almost identical to an 8.1 and some parts interchange.

    Franz

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  • bretlott
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    you better make sure that EL camino is EPA certified. heaven forbid you gas yourself out because of a leaking fitting. What could happen if someone rear ended you with a propane tank in the back; thats a safety issue. what if someone asked you to grill a steak or a berger while driving.

    Leave a comment:


  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Thanks for the info Techie. I'll be looking for some next week around Quartzite where it is usually a little cheaper.

    Larrycng (& sometimes LPG)

    Leave a comment:


  • Techie
    replied
    Re: 1.69 Propane

    Originally posted by jetboatjohnny View Post
    Here's that station, it has gone up and down, I believe it is 1.79 now.
    http://www.cngchat.com/photopost/sho...=451&ppuser=67
    That is very cheap. In AZ you are lucky to get LPG @ 2.25/gal.

    Leave a comment:


  • jetboatjohnny
    replied
    1.69 Propane

    Here's that station, it has gone up and down, I believe it is 1.79 now.
    http://www.cngchat.com/photopost/sho...=451&ppuser=67

    Leave a comment:


  • Curtis
    replied
    Re: Propane Fueled Vehicles

    Yes, the conversion is being done by a local propane company shop. I'm pretty fair with a wrench, but I know my limits. All emissions equipment is in place, there's no computers on this car, all performance parts carry CARB approval... and how did you know I had a MoPar engine in my Chevy?

    Leave a comment:

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