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  • #46
    Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

    Yeah, I guess it is the appropriate thing to do. Do you know how I can take the cover off my tank in my trunk of a 2000 honda civic GX? Just bought it and need to check the date.
    Thanks

    Originally posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
    No such Law in CA that I am aware of, however it is a violation of federal law to operate in violation of fed. dot regs. prohibiting filling and operating on a public highway with expired cylinders. I do not reccomend doing so.

    No California or Federal" Tank police " to hunt you down, however ,2 sure fire ways to get caught :1, after a major accident or in a fire or tank failure. 2. on a medium or heavy duty cng truck going thru a state weight/truck inspection station. Not many older big cng trucks , but some owner/operators may be looking for cheap ,expired extra tanks.
    2013 Chevy volt 2013 Ford C-Max Energi

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    • #47
      Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

      Thought I'd share my recent experience here...
      I was considering purchasing a '99 Gx for around 6K. Thought it was a great deal, until I found out about the expiring tank issue, that is...Fortunately I talked to enough people to convince me that it would not be worth it, considering I'd have to replace the tank in 3 yrs. I called Honda - they wanted 6,000 + for a new tank, and I called a local CNG conversion place (SLC area) and they quoted me 3200. To me, having to spend that kind of money in 3 years was not worth the investment.

      There are so many vehicles out there for sale that are over priced, considering the need to replace tanks in the next few years. Some may even be already expired. Be careful and know what "deal" you are getting.

      BTW, I am still driving a '92 bi-fuel truck with expired tanks...Safety inspections over the years never asked once about my tanks. I'm just now beginning to realize I probably shouldn't keep chancing it. BUT, for those out there who ask if tanks will work after they expire, mine have. I'm not advocating anything, just sayin'...

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      • #48
        Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

        For anyone with nearly expired tank in Civic GX, there is a tank out of wrecked Civic GX listed on CL at:
        http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/2790125395.html

        It's out of a 2009 GX so not sure what all years it will fit (or whether it's an "extra" tank for trunk .. or big enough to be replacement of OEM original tank - - listing is unclear). Either way, be sure to get a CERTIFIED cng installer if you plan on pursuing this. Tank is in Denver, CO so a road trip likely needed to pick it up. Price is $1,300 per the listing but not many details.

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        • #49
          Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

          Originally posted by bestinlife View Post
          Yeah, I guess it is the appropriate thing to do. Do you know how I can take the cover off my tank in my trunk of a 2000 honda civic GX? Just bought it and need to check the date.
          Thanks
          To get access to the sticker on the side of the CNG tank in the back of a 1998-2000 Civic GX, you have to remove 1) the plastic/felt panel, 2) a metal plate behind the plastic/felt panel. On my 99 Civic GX, there are 4 removable plastic "push clips" that held the plastic/felt panel in place. Depending on the style of push clip you have, these can either be removed by prying them off, or by prying up the plastic bolt in the center of the clip (which will release the pressure on the expanding clip), then prying the outer plastic out of the hole. Once you have the plastic/felt panel out of the way, the metal plate is held in by five 10mm nuts -- three on bottom, two on top. I needed an extension to my socket wrench to remove the two on top, but it all came out pretty easy. After removing the metal plate, the tank is fully visible.

          Re-installation involves replacing the parts in reverse order. Don't over tighten the 10mm nuts when re-installing.

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          • #50
            Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

            Any cheaper option for the tank yet??

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

              Originally posted by bergtsam View Post
              Thought I'd share my recent experience here...
              I was considering purchasing a '99 Gx for around 6K. Thought it was a great deal, until I found out about the expiring tank issue, that is...Fortunately I talked to enough people to convince me that it would not be worth it, considering I'd have to replace the tank in 3 yrs. I called Honda - they wanted 6,000 + for a new tank, and I called a local CNG conversion place (SLC area) and they quoted me 3200. To me, having to spend that kind of money in 3 years was not worth the investment.

              There are so many vehicles out there for sale that are over priced, considering the need to replace tanks in the next few years. Some may even be already expired. Be careful and know what "deal" you are getting.

              BTW, I am still driving a '92 bi-fuel truck with expired tanks...Safety inspections over the years never asked once about my tanks. I'm just now beginning to realize I probably shouldn't keep chancing it. BUT, for those out there who ask if tanks will work after they expire, mine have. I'm not advocating anything, just sayin'...
              I just checked with Mel Rapton Honda in Sacramento about our CNG cylinder certification expiring. We have owned our Civic GX since December 1998 and have a FuelMaker Phill in our garage (it costs us less than $1.20 per gas gallon equivalent to refuel at home). We had assumed that we would continue driving this car for at least another 5 years, since it still looks great, we continue to average 28 to 32 mpg, with occasional highway trips earning us close to 39 mpg, HOWEVER, we will NOT be keeping our GX. Mel Rapton quoted us $6200.00 for a replacement cylinder and labor to install it is $880.00. SINCE WHEN WOULD WE EVER SPEND OVER $7,000 ON A CAR WHICH WILL BE 15 YEARS OLD IN MAY 2013, THAT IS ONLY WORTH ABOUT $3,000 ACCORDING TO KELLY BLUE BOOK? We like our NGV, but are disgusted with the expense Honda expects us to pay them to continue using our car. The cost of a depleted battery pack on an EV no longer looks like a deal breaker, does it!

              Formerly happy Honda Civic GX owners.... now disgusted!

              Comment


              • #52
                Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                HI,
                I have just finished reading the thread about having to replace the CNG tank after 15 years. I am a new owner of a 2012 Honda Natural Gas (I guess they got tired of calling it a GX) and we tend to keep cars forever. This car was a replacement for a 2003 Saturn Vue with 150,000 iles on it. (Parts were going to become an issue). Hopefully, we will still be using this vehicle in 15 years. To get to the point, how much does it cost to replace the CNG Tank in an Honda NGV? Do all of the fuel lines have to be replaced at the same time?

                Thanks,
                R60060

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                • #53
                  Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                  Currently it cost alot esp if you go with new tanks. ($5000-$7000) Hopefully in 15 years there will be more makers of CNG tanks and more users of CNG and that will bring the cost down. if you had a 15 year old civic today and had to replace the tanks it would cost more then a 15 year old civic is worth.

                  Sorry for the bad news but hopefully in 15 years Autozone, Advanced Auto Parts, Wal-Mart and Costco will be selling replacements tanks.

                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                    I'm buying a newer truck and I would not buy anything today that had less than a 20 year tank life. In the next 5 years I will have 3 GXs and a Cavalier with out of date 15 year tanks. I have a dedicated CNG Dodge van that already has expired tanks (runs very well) offered to a few folks for $1000 and no takers - point is that Deshet is correct - new tanks costs way more than a 15 year old vehicle.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                      Originally posted by Deshet View Post
                      Currently it cost alot esp if you go with new tanks. ($5000-$7000) Hopefully in 15 years there will be more makers of CNG tanks and more users of CNG and that will bring the cost down. if you had a 15 year old civic today and had to replace the tanks it would cost more then a 15 year old civic is worth.

                      Sorry for the bad news but hopefully in 15 years Autozone, Advanced Auto Parts, Wal-Mart and Costco will be selling replacements tanks.

                      Thanks
                      I would estimate the price for a new tank for a Honda Civic Natural Gas (GX) to be in the $2,500 - $3,000 range with labor. To me, $5k - $7k is a little steep for a new tank.

                      The only pressure vessels that I have seen for sale at Walmart are the 20 oz 3,000 psi paintball tanks. You can't even buy a carbon fiber 4,500 psi paintball tank at Walmart or Costco. If you want to buy a carbon fiber paintball tank you have to go to a specialty paintball shop or online store. That is pretty much the same for buying a CNG tank, you have to go to a specialty CNG shop.

                      My point is, it hasn't happened for paintball cylinders, it actually hasn't happened for SCBA cylinders, and I don't think it will happen for CNG cylinders. But, in 15 years the price should be down if there are more users of CNG.
                      Jared.
                      Mountain Green, Utah
                      2003 CNG Cavalier
                      2003 CNG Silverado 2500HD

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                        I have seen certified CNG tanks online for about $1000.00, however this is bulk pricing and uninstalled. This is for a 9GGE tank (the tank in my car is approx. 8GGE). Some posters have suggested that the only replacement tank MUST be purchased and installed by Honda. Is this true? Also, granted that $2000.00 to $3,000.00 is probably more than the vehicle is worth, it is a lot less than $28 to $30,0000 that a new GX costs. I figure that in 15 years the same new car will cost in the neighborhood of $45,000. to $55,000. I think that this may need to be figured into the cost of purchasing the vehicle, just like brakes and tires.
                        R60060

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                        • #57
                          Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                          Do these tanks really wear out or degrade in any significant way? Are thy really dangerous, or is this just a standard precaution based on poor science?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

                            I just talked with John Coursen who works with Worthington Cylinders. He said they custom make these cylinders for the Civics, but don't stock them. A run of 1 (and this is for a 35" long x 18" diameter cylinder) would cost around $2775. He said runs of 50-100 would drop the unit price to around $1800. He also mentioned he's going to some sort of conference on this subject next week and was meeting with some Honda people and would talk to them about all the '98 civics reaching their tank expiry, and why they are quoting $6000 for a replacement...

                            Any other places I can find cylinders, I'll post here.

                            Terry

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Cost of Replacement CNG tank for a Honda Natural Gas

                              Originally posted by Ron Wagner View Post
                              Do these tanks really wear out or degrade in any significant way? Are thy really dangerous, or is this just a standard precaution based on poor science?
                              Ron,

                              First the facts:

                              1. The tanks are not compliant with various regulations after ther expiration date.
                              2. The tank manufacturer will not guarantee or support the tanks after they have expired.
                              3. Since tanks are generally not required to be tested beyond expected lifetime tests or at least the data is not available to anyone beside the manufacturer the data is not available to the public to make a fully informed decision regarding the use of the tanks beyond their expiration date.
                              4. Based on the field history of U.S. DOT approved tanks, the data suggests that there is quite a conserative margin between design lifetime and failure. No significant major service problems or fatalities with U.S. DOT approved tanks used and maintained properly with maybe the exception of certain Comdyne tanks (very small number of events).

                              The discussion:

                              1. If engineering data is not freely available to support extending the tank use, many equate use after the expiration date as unsafe.
                              2. NFPA/DOT/NTSB accident/injury/property damage statistics appear to suggest CNG tanks have a safety record better than gasoline/diesel tanks.

                              Opinion (mine):

                              Why do we accept a higher fatality/injury/property damage rate for gasoline/diesel compared to CNG tanks? This drives up the cost of NGVs and puts the bar higher for NGVs. I believe the acceptable rate should be the same either by lowering the requirements for CNG tanks or raising the requirements for gasoline/diesel tanks.

                              If we get too deep into this I'm sure the thread will get shut down because some folks don't want to acknowledge the playing field is not level and they accept a lower standard for legacy fuels compared to CNG.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: those w/ older honda civic GX's 98-01, gas tank replacement options?

                                Originally posted by thardie View Post
                                I just talked with John Coursen who works with Worthington Cylinders. He said they custom make these cylinders for the Civics, but don't stock them. A run of 1 (and this is for a 35" long x 18" diameter cylinder) would cost around $2775. He said runs of 50-100 would drop the unit price to around $1800. He also mentioned he's going to some sort of conference on this subject next week and was meeting with some Honda people and would talk to them about all the '98 civics reaching their tank expiry, and why they are quoting $6000 for a replacement...

                                Any other places I can find cylinders, I'll post here.

                                Terry
                                Terry,

                                Did you get a $6000 quote? I'm hearing different things from different folks. Once again folks are probably making guesses instead of reporting actual quoted costs. One of my GXs is a 1998. For $2500 I might replace the tank (given I get another potential 15 years of use) but for $6000 I'm going to part out the vehicle or sell it for parts. It would be great if folks would provide actual quoted costs.

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