Spark Plugs and other parts?

[Larryect]

Any idea where I might be able to find the NGK PFR7N-D plugs specified in the owners manual?

I there a list of parts dealers somewhere?

Thanks

[Lakewood90712]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

On my 01 GX , I got mine from Bernardi , on The internet. about $11 each. Dealer list is $17 and all the nice Honda dealers in so cal charge $22 each !. Honda part# 98079-5787T


Honda cng engines do not eat up the stock plugs like ford cng engines do.
My P71 crown vic oem plugs were toast at 30K miles. (along with bad coils, clogged injectors , the combo ruined a catalist , and the catalist got so hot it started my carpet melting and smoking!)


That plug is an oem only item.!!!!! If you go to the NGK website it will give you the WRONG spec.!!!!!

I may be full of crap on a lot of things, but on this one, I know what I am posting. Anyone wanting to start a flame war on this, you better get on a nomex jumpsuit. Sparkplug brand talk usually does it ! LOL.

I changed my plugs for the first time at 110,000 miles , not running bad , but honda specs replacement at 105,000, and they were only worn to about .040 (the spec is .031).
The plug and gap are NOT the same as a gasoline civic. Use a LITTLE anti-seize on the threads and tork to 12 ft#max!.

On the 1.6L engine, bad idle can be caused by a bad distributor base plate assy.

On the 1.7 L engine, missing when cold is more likely from cracks in the coils. They go deep into the head and really cook. Coil pack dealer list $57 , the local dealers charge $ 73 each. you will find the about $33 + shipping on the internet.

I will soon post some images from my shadetree mechanic Honda cng A and B filter change. It was very easy after I fabed a tool to re-torque the high pressure filter housing.

[Larryect]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Thanks for the reply.

I had searched the internet for the NGK part number and sure did not find anything. And I agree the NGK website doesn't seem to be right. In fact I could not find the PFR7N-D listed. When I searched NGK by make and model of the car they came up with a plug of a different number and a different gap setting. The gap they listed was .044 and my manual says .03. So, I suspected it wasn’t right. When I asked at Pep-Boys the counter guy wanted to sell me a cross reference. I did not trust that either. My next step was going to be a dealer.

I searched for Bernardi and found them. I searched their web site by NGK part number and it did not come up. But found then by searching by make and model. Their price is currently $12.67.

I have the 2002 civic. I have a friend that has (I think) 2001. His was having a real rough time stalling at stop lights etc. Dealers replaced all the injectors and did not fix it. Another dealer replaced the coils. That's what it was. Luckily in CA emissions warranty covered it for him.

Mine has about 82,000 miles and I just think it is not running as smoothly at idle as it used to.

I bought the car with 33,000. I checked the high pressure and changed the low pressure fuel filters myself at about 50,000 and they appeared to be absolutely clean, so I haven't done it since.


I am sure glad I found this site.

Larry

[ajgiorgi]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

I got the ones referenced on the NGK website on my 99. $2 a piece, and it runs smooth. It's been two thousand or more miles and it runs like a champ. Might swap out and see if I can get better mileage with the stock ones. I did a complete tuneup before because my check engine light came on and it was running rough. It ended up being a bad fuel injector. I kept my old parts though.

[Larryect]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

No check engine light on, and not really running that bad. I was just thinking 82,000 mile on the original plugs is a long time even though Honda says 100,000 +.

If I remember right from my automotive diagnosis class (many moons ago). Higher compression in these engines may cause the spark more trouble making the jump across the gap. On the other hand, more gap allows more of the fuel mixture to be exposed to the spark. Anyway, I thoght I should try to get what Honda lists in the owners manual.

[jcorbat]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

I had a long dialog with a tech from NGK a couple months ago regarding spark plugs for the '98~'00 GX. He did admit that the online part finder is incorrect and that the proper plugs are a dealer-only part (PFR7N-D). However, after doing a bit of research, he suggested trying the following iridium plug: BKR7E-IX (stock#: 2667) which are about $7 each at Advance. If you want to go cheap and try a nickel/copper plug, pick-up a set of part# BKR7E...maybe $2 each.

Here's a quote from the NGK Tech:
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Compared with gasoline, CNG is much harder to ignite and operates at leaner AFR's which is also more difficult to ignite than a richer mixture. Fine wire plugs (platinum or iridium) are used in these engines not only for longevity but also for increased efficiency.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

I have been running BKR7E-IX plugs for a month now and they work great. The car is running smooth and I'm averaging 36mpgge.

The reason I changed plugs in the first place is that I was getting a CEL code P0302 for a misfire in Cylinder 2. After running alcohol through the injectors (email me if you want details) and figuring out that they were OK, I finally found out that I had faulty plug wire. It should have been the first thing I looked at but I just couldn't accept that a plug wire could be bad after 53k miles. Word to the wise.

[bruin]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Jcorbat,, did the NGK tech give you any recommendations on the gap of the Iridium 9's in a CNG vehicle?

[jetboatjohnny]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

I have not had to replace my plugs in both GXs but I have had great luck with Nippondenso plugs for my watercraft, I got a deal on a box of the gold plugs. I will never buy NGK plugs again, I got a defective one, my boat would not run, the plug was arc-ing.

[jcorbat]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Bruin - I left the gap as it was out of the box (0.032"). The NGK tech recommended that I take the gap down to the factory spec (0.024") but I didn't want to mess with the gap on an iridium plug. It's too easy to ding the fine wire electrode and I felt that the difference between 0.032" and 0.024" was negligible. I have been running the new plugs for several hundred miles and the car is running great!

[Wellarmed]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Spark plugs can have a rather significant effect on power, and depending on the ignition system used, may create negative effects that would warrant serious concern. I, as a rule, always check spark plug resistance with my Ohm meter to make certain that they are reletively close to each other in value. This takes only seconds as can save you alot of time down the road. I have had mixed results with some iridium plugs when used with certain COP ignition systems. And I was not certain if it was related to inductive kick back or noise generation. I do know that changing to a different type of plug completely eliminated the problem. Platinum plugs are generally used as a crutch for a weak ignition system, but in certain circumstance have had very good results. The most variation that I have personally ever seen, merely by changing plugs was 22 hp. Do not touch the "porcelin" of the plug with your fingers. It should be treated similar to a Halogen Bulb, in that the oils from your fingers can effectively short circuit a spark plug in a leanburn application. I personally use a Hazet spark plug socket when changing plugs on CNG vehicles to avoid contamination of the Aluminum Oxide insulator. I also use a new silicone spark plug boot (not rubber hose) to start the treads by hand to feel that I am not crossthreading the plug. I must admit the Hazet socket does take some getting used to and I have broken my fair share of $20 spark plugs. It uses metal inserts in the socket to keep the spark plug centered. I highly recomend purchasing one, or at the very least pulling out the typically crudded up rubber, or silicone insulator in your existing socket. I have created my own data base of resistance values for different spark plugs that I typically use, as winning or losing a race usually comes down to these type of minor details. Your parts guy was correct when he said it would require greater ignition energy to initiate combustion. This is absolutely the reverse for hydrogen, and even static energy can easily ignite a flamable mixture. ALWAYS change the spark plug boots when changing your plugs, especially if they are encased on bores such as in the ford SOHC motors. All ignitions systems create oxone which will attack and break down the boot. This oxone production can be minimized to some degree by using dialetric compound in the boot which will reduce arcing. Top fuel motors sometimes need presurized nitrogen to stop this ozone formation. It is only necessary to achieve ionization voltage long enough to initiate combustion, at which point it takes current to maintain plasma flow. In other words don't get carried away with your spark plug gap as it will only increase the work on the ignition system with little in way of return. A smaller gap can be good insurance in high performance applications. Happy Hunting

[pro5utah]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Partsgeek.com has the PFR7N-D stock plugs for the GX for $5.75/Ea. Click on the link and scroll to the Denso section of the list.

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbparts/2003/honda/civic/spark_plug.html

-Daniel

[utah]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

So my dealers mechanic said to only use iridium plugs, meaning Denso since the NGK are not, just platinum. So whats the correct part to use? IK22 or the PFR7N-D ?

[rodney_kranz]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

So my dealers mechanic said to only use iridium plugs, meaning Denso since the NGK are not, just platinum. So whats the correct part to use? IK22 or the PFR7N-D ?

The shop manual calls for PFR7N-D. You should ask him why he is saying to use something else. See the attachment at: http://cngchat.com/forum/showthread....n-01-05-Models

[ELV1S]

Re: Spark Plugs and other parts?

Has anybody used BRISK DR15YS-9 LPG CNG SILVER SPARK PLUG for a 2001-2004 Civic GX?