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Thread: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

  1. #1
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    Default Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    Does anyone know of a LEGAL conversion kit? Given the recent EPA rule changes, I thought we might see such systems start being offered. The only LEGAL conversions that I know of are done by EPA certified conversion shops that cater to fleet operators. Is there something preventing legal conversion kits to be available to DIYers or ordinary auto mechanics? Does the certification go beyond the materials - like the person doing the install must be certified in some respect? Is the certification cost on the system itself still too high to make such a thing practical?
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    The big question is: Are you trained?

    The EPA breaks vehicles into 3 tiers. 2012 -2010 (current year being 2011 and either year around it) require certified kits. 2009 - 2001 requires OBDll compliant kits and proof of passing the emissions test. I understand that a scanner can do that. I may be wrong and some one will correct me if so. Tier 3 is all the old vehicles and those past their useful life. (more than 10 years or 100,000 miles) They must pass a tail pipe emissions test.

    Certified kits can only be purchased with a manufacturers training certificate number.

    I am not a mechanic so this is just my interpretation. Hit the post if I'm wrong folks.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    I think as a practical matter that only 'tier 1' of Amfuel's three groups is actually available. Older OBDII kits are no longer EPA certified and even if they were the companies that made them probably won't sell them to anybody (they're the same companies that make and install the new kits, no incentive to sell old kits even if they could). I don't think EPA has any procedure for an individual get their 'blessing' on a converted 'past useful life' car. Does anyone do that testing?
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    I personally doubt you will see anything available for a few years. The Obamanation passed over 600 new rules in July... they want to control everything that goes on in the USA; we now need to obtain permission to even attempt anything new or innovative, and imho, that has killed any possibility of cheap conversion kits. Im all for setting safety standards, but I feel epa certifications and limiting installation and parts availability to a small number of overcharging "specialists" does not add much value or future expansion potential.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    These crazy rules go back before Obama. The current admin didn't need to do anything -- the small volume manufacturers already had a monopoly on conversions. Cheap, proven kits are available but if you live in a state with a smog check program they will fail a car with a kit.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    20 years in CNG training and conversion have given a little insite. Even if there is and EPA approved "do it yourself" kit, I would submit that they need to be tested for proper operation after they are installed (emission dyne and OBD II). No matter how good the "kit" is, there is still the "Human factor" and this is where Murphy's Law kicks in. It could be a problem with the kit, a problem the vehicle engine and/or computer system, or just a "dumb" mistake by the installer (and we have all made them -- and will again).

    This just covers the engine, I don't thing I have to go into the remainder of the system installation.

    Larrycng
    Last edited by larrycng; 08-05-2011 at 09:09 AM. Reason: old age

  7. #7

    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    No argument that it is a good idea to test after installing a kit, but who does that? EPA has taken it's authority to prevent 'tampering' with emission control systems as license to prevent any modifications unless hundreds of thousands of $$$ of testing has been done.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by larrycng View Post
    ............. No matter how good the "kit" is, there is still the "Human factor" and this is where Murphy's Law kicks in.

    Larrycng
    Hey don't drag me into this :0)
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    SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
    Hey don't drag me into this :0)
    I didn't know you were Irish

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Does a LEGAL DIY Conversion Kit Exist?

    Who is to say what is legal and what is not. I can buy a kit that was used in an EPA certified system a few years ago but the certification is now expires, as Larry said who installs a system and how it is tuned is important also the tank and high pressure fittings should follow NFPA52 standards. Whether or not the system is tuned correctly goes to the "tampering" question, if the emission standards are maintained after the conversion then there is no tampering. Any system EPA certified or not can have problems, all systems will have running problems. I feel that it is the EPA's responsibility to prove if a person is tampering, it should not be assumed that non EPA-certified is synonymous with "tampering". By the way can anyone show me a valid example where an individual of company has been fined those alleged $1000's for any "illegal" conversion by the EPA? If not why all the fuss???
    Last edited by younkin; 08-06-2011 at 12:23 AM.

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