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CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

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  • CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

    As someone who is "CNV curious" and not yet quite ready to buy, I'd like to know:

    (1) Does it make economic sense to purchase a Honda GX when you add in the cost of the re-fueling device? I mean, if my net expenditure is $26K after tax credits, I'm not sure I want to pay that much for a Civic.

    (2) Does the re-fueling device come with a warranty -- and what is it?

    (3) Does the re-fueling device come with a tax credit?

    (4) Can you add an extra tank to the GX to extend the range?

    (5) Some of the material I've seen shows a range of only 114 miles when using a "Phill" at 3,600 psi, yet an FMQ-2-36 shows a range of 200 miles with the same 3,600 psi. If the pressure is the same, how could the range be different? Is there someone out there with real world experience?

    (6) Does the use of CNG extend the useful life of the vehicle?

    (7) Do dealers lease the Civic GX? Not sure I want to buy if I could lease.

    (8) Where do I find a list of CNG stations? (I live in North Florida.)

    Thanks for your answers!

  • #2
    Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

    Originally posted by BUZ View Post
    (8) Where do I find a list of CNG stations? (I live in North Florida.)
    Based upon your location, you may find the rest of your questions moot. Nevertheless:

    www.cngprices.com


    “Innovation is driven by having access to things.” -- Gleb Budman, CEO of backblaze.com

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    • #3
      Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

      is $26k worth it for a civic? I don't think so, with that question alone.. however, also realize that that extra few thousand is also basically a pre-payment on a good portion of the gasoline you would have to buy with a gasoline equivalent. As with most purchasing decisions, it will depend on your needs/situation. If you drive enough miles, the savings from buying <$1/gallon fuel will quickly add up to make up that thousand dollars or so. There are tax incentives to consider for both the Civic itself, AND the refueling device, but as with all tax laws, there are catches (AMT).

      Yes, all else equal, and CNG engine will last longer than gasoline. CNG burns so clean, the oil stays MUCH healthier, leading to MUCH longer engine life, and considerably longer oil change intervals.
      1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
      2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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      • #4
        Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

        If I lived in Northern Florida (and I do ) I would not consider a GX if it was my only vehicle. Seeing how the closest CNG station is in South Carolina(east coast) or Altanta, Ga. (west coast), home refueling is the only option. I would buy a used bi-fuel Cavalier and a used VRA--Fuelmaker FM4 or FM2Q-36. You would be into it for less then 1/3 of the cost of the Civic. In addition, you have unlimited range and the option try CNG and make sure it is for you. The Cavalier will give you about 140 miles of range if filled to 3600 psi with the FM2Q-36 and about 120 miles with the FM4. If you decide that CNG doesn't work for you , you can get out of it for little or no cost. Just wait for gasoline prices to rise again and sell out for a profit, not a loss. Make sure your local building inspector(s) will allow the installation of the VRA at the location you want.

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        • #5
          Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

          Thanks for the replies.

          It looks as if those who want to buy a Phill are out of luck for now.

          I checked with FuelMaker Sales, who advised me as follows:

          "At this present time FSS is in the process of moving the manufacturing from Canada to Europe. We hope to have all FuelMaker products back on the market as soon as possible. We are also in the process of relocating our North American service center to Sterling Heights, Michigan.

          Please check back with us later in the year for updates."

          Similarly, the Honda dealer in Florida who receives one GX a month told me that I shouldn't expect to buy a re-fueling unit until after 1/1/10.

          At this point, I think I'll abandon the attempt to purchase a CNG vehicle.

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          • #6
            Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

            There are still quite a few Phill's on the market... some on Ebay, some through the installers who still have some in stock. Just have to do some more shopping around.
            1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
            2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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            • #7
              Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

              $0.604 gge at my house in WI. $2000 Phill credit, 50% up to $50,000 on VRAs. (if you qualify)

              Bi-fuel is the way to go for your area. (some efficiency loss due to an engine designed for gasoline)

              GX will get up to 300 miles per tank at 3600psi with a slow fill. (keep your foot out of it)

              Extended life, lower maintenance, clean, renewable fuel. (20x less a ghg after NG is burned)

              It puzzles me to hear "is it economically prudent?" You will get custom wheels and all the bells and whistles, pay top dollar, and not bat an eye. But the hell with our national security, independence, and saving money, the environment. Is it feasible?

              To me it is a no brainer.

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              • #8
                Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

                Hundreds of billions of our dollars (per year) pouring out of our country to places such as the middle east for foreign oil. I don't think that's said enough.
                A gasoline gallon equivelant of natural gas is $0.746 at my house in IA. Nearest CNG station is 225 miles away so I bought 2 bi-fuel Cavaliers and a new FMQ2-36. Just under $25k for all three.
                Abundant, clean, lower cost American fuel. I agree it's a no brainer.
                FMQ2-36
                98 Cavalier (sold)
                03 Cavalier
                04 F 150 4WD
                2015 Impala

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                • #9
                  Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

                  Sadly it appears that we will have to burn up every drop of oil on this planet before the incentive for the NG market will be there. texas is'nt interested even tho we are drilling hundreds of gas wells. Even Midland the hub of gas and oil drilling has just one cng pump, thats stuck out in the middle of nowhere. The cost for people like me is completely out of reach. I have 2 dedicated trucks I cannot refuel, so they are useless to me. The cost of refueling devices are ridiculous and the EPA has destroyed any hope that companies would want to get involved no matter how noble their intentions. It's nice that Ca. Okla and La. have given incentives to go Ng. but the rest of us will just burn gasoline or propane until the market is more widespread.

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                  • #10
                    Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

                    I forgot to mention on my previous post that west Texas has propane for heat and car fuel. To have NG brouht out to my house was quoted at $170,000

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                    • #11
                      Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

                      [QUOTE=Amfuel;29711]

                      GX will get up to 300 miles per tank at 3600psi with a slow fill. (keep your foot out of it)
                      QUOTE]

                      The new Civic's do have a LOT better range than my 2000, but don't expect to get 300 mile range in the summer (at least not any place that's hot) My wife doesn't have a light foot, but we made just 220 miles earlier this week, with no bars on the last 14 miles. I don't like to cut it that close!
                      2008 GX (extended range, trunkless version)
                      Polished Metal Metallic 2012 Civic Natural Gas
                      Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36 (since 2001)
                      Previously owned: 2000 GX (11 years), 1995 Bi-fuel Sonoma, 2000 Bifuel Tahoe, 2000 Bi-fuel F150

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                      • #12
                        Re: CNV for Dummies -- newbie questions

                        re. newbie questions,

                        Aside from the politics and sales issues, I will attempt to answer the even numbered technical questions #4, #6 and #8:

                        #4 Can you add and extra tank. YES, BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO?

                        #6 Does CNG extend the life of the engine. YES...BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE! THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST KEPT SECRETS ABOUT NGV'S. BY SWITCHING TO A GASEOUIS FUEL YOU REDUCE CARBON BUILD UP IN THE ENGINE, EXTEND OIL CHANGE INTERVALS BECAUSE THERE IS LESS/NO OIL DILUTION AND CAN COUNT ON LONGER BOTTOM END MAINS AND ROD BEARING LIFE DUE TO THE HIGHER OCTANE RATING FOR NG. THIS TRANSLATES TO A SLOWER, LONGER, SMOOTHER POWER STROKE AND LESS POUNDING ON THE BOTTOM END OF THE ENGINE.

                        #8 Where can you find CNG fill stations...in Northern FL. THE AFDC TRIES TO KEEP AN UP-TO-DATE LISTING OF ALL THE FILL STATIONS FOR ALL THE ALTERNATIVE FUELS. GO TO: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/locator/stations/ AND TYPE IN CNG AND FL. IT ACTUALLY SHOWS ONE IN MILTON, FL!

                        Good luck,

                        afvman

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