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Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

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  • Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

    Gasoline and Diesel fuel is going down and the price of oil has dropped in half of the summer high of $148 to now $70 a barrel.

    I believe the price will contine to drop to a trading range of $60 to $80 a barrel over the next year. It may even drop to $50

    Oil dropping will kill off consumer demand for alt fuels. Utah has a glut of CNG cars for sale, that were bought a auction for too much money and are now trying to be sold for too much money.

    And since Gas is now down to $3 a gallon and Utah has a CNG pressure problem. CNG will be dead for a while in Utah and everywhere else until oil goes back to $150 a barrel.

    CE is keeping CNG prices high by not reducing price at the pump. Most CE customers are government entities who basicly really don't care or look at the price.

    Earning season is near and CE reports in Nov and will want to show increased revinue to look good on paper so they will keep the cng price 30% less than gas.

    In LA CE is between $2.20 to $3 for CNG and a local city yard is now down to $1.79 a gge. Huge differance in price!!!

    Bottom line the Oil Companies need to sell cheap fuel to keep us addicted to gasoline and to avoid alt fuel cometition from CNG, EV and H2.

    The auto industry also needs cheap fuel to sell the glut of New cars in their inventory. The Auto industry is strapped for cash GM dropping from a high of $80 to a low of $4... The lack of current auto sales is killing the big giants. Some will fail, some will merge. Oil needs to stay cheap for GM and F to survive.

    Oil will remain low because of the resession and impending depression, along with a decreased demand for oil world wide.

  • #2
    Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

    CNG will still have a gradual growth, especially with the oil spike in everyone's memory. The rapid onslaught of the Utah CNG market in the last year or two has NOT been good for CNG, driving the prices to insane levels. A gradual growth will result in a much stronger CNG market in the end.

    The public awareness of CNG has never been higher, and pressure on the automakers for CNG in the US hasn't been this high since the fleet-demand of 10 years ago, so we are still looking good.
    1997 Factory Crown Victoria w/ extended tanks ~~ Clunkerized!
    2000 Bi-Fuel Expedition --> ~~ Sold ~~ <--

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    • #3
      Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

      I agree with Fuzzy that things are still looking good. Will it slow a bit as oil works it way down to $50? (yes, I think that's where we're going) Absolutely. But it needed to calm down. Nothing can continue to grow at the rate it did this spring. Doesn't matter if you're talking about the price of oil or GX's. The market simply can't bear it for very long and it will correct.

      People's eyes are open a bit wider than they were before. We saw how vulnerable we are and how quickly a bad situation can get ugly as oil spiked. As a potential global recession sets in demand for oil will drop and so will the price, temporarily at least. OPEC said they think it should be priced between 80-100, so don't be surprised if it chops around there for awhile.

      As for stocks, well, I shorted Toyota yesterday. CLNE will work hard for it's bottom line but with the sudden decrease in demand for CNG cars and now they are backing out of the Fuelmaker deal, that might be the recipe for a $10 stock going to $4.

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      • #4
        Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

        The municipalities don't pay the "pump price" for CNG from CE. Just us lucky consumers.
        02 GX
        01 GX
        03 Crown Vic
        06 GX
        Home Fueler

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        • #5
          Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

          This should force GX dealers to move their prices to MSRP or below! Good for the smart consumer.

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          • #6
            Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

            CE and Honda both backed out of the Fuel maker deal yesterday. Oil is going down and also the demand for CNG cars. Plenty of CNG cars to buy on the market and no buyers.

            Overall the high fuel prices have brought a great of attention back to alt fuels, and may be over the next 10 years we will get off oil, but the fact that alt fuel cars have a premium will off set consumer demand if oil is priced low.

            Some local cities are paying CE pump prices. They sign a contract with CE that they must use CE pumps and they lock in a fixed floating price for a time period. Once this ends they are paying the pump price when they fill up at the pump. If they have a slow fill station that's different. This is what I have been told by one local city yard employee. The down town LA station pump price is still $3 and has a line around to corner of city busses and trucks. Do they get a discount on their bill maybe but they are still paying more for CNG if the pump price is $3 even with a discount than a city's that owns there pump equipment..

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            • #7
              Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

              By Xmas 2009 oil will be back to ridiculous pricing, mark my words.

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              • #8
                Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                I would expect that with the influx of NGV's in Utah, there will still be a demand to add / update the CNG infrastructure because now that they have their NGV's, they will want to keep fueling for the low prices.

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                • #9
                  Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                  Anybody know why the deal was terminated or are we just going to speculate that it has to do with the dropping oil and subsequent gasoline prices.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                    Nevermind, I found a partial explanation. "The closing did not occur by October 3, 2008 primarily due to the fact that the sellers (Honda and Fuelmaker) were unable to deliver audited financial statements by October 3rd, etc. "

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                    • #11
                      Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                      those of us developing cng stations need time to develop the infrastructure. if the next potus approves a good energy plan cng will become commonplace.i agree that oil will go to the $50 range per lindsey williams
                      ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhXQAJENVxQ ).but remember that nat gas is dropping also and all it takes a attack in the middle east to create a shortage, so to get independence from big oil keep pushing for cng
                      Last edited by scottfetsh; 10-17-2008, 03:42 PM. Reason: spelling

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                      • #12
                        Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                        Originally posted by scottfetsh View Post
                        ...all it takes a attack in the middle east to create a shortage, so to get independence from big oil keep pushing for cng
                        Agreed on both counts, but please consider this as well. We have been lucky the past several hurricane seasons because (except for Florida) the Gulf coast storms have all hit square, gone inland, and turned into warm rainy cells (great for my irrigation cistern). If we get a big one that takes a walk along the coast from say, Gulfport, MS to Padre Island, TX then the gasoline shortages we have seen here in the Southeast are gonna look like good times. Personally, I will bet on that before the Middle East scenario (or, for that matter, Russia closing the spigot).

                        Katrina may have been a real witch, but at least she came in as a straight shot.
                        Last edited by Andy-Paul; 10-18-2008, 01:26 PM. Reason: clarity

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                        • #13
                          Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                          I filled up at KB's in Cedar the other day, Took 5 minutes to get 1.5 gallons in a 30 gallon tank, OUCH. When talking to the clerk about it she says that people complain all the time and they in turn complain to Questar but Questar will do nothing. Also she mentioned someone locally tried to open a public station and the city was making him wait 2 years before allowing the permit for it. Anyone know if there is truth to this?
                          sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
                          SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

                          2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
                          2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
                          1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
                          2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

                          FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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                          • #14
                            Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                            Originally posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
                            Also she mentioned someone locally tried to open a public station and the city was making him wait 2 years before allowing the permit for it. Anyone know if there is truth to this?
                            Haven't heard it, but it sure wouldn't surprise me...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Oil dropping killing demand for alt fuels!!!!

                              silly people we are, I remember all to well the gas lines of the 70's both times. We still need oil, our prices are controlled by thugs and the sand people (pc term from star wars) it's called OPEC. 260 billion went to Dubia last year these people do nothing but sit on there FAT you know what. Check it out come on a indoor ski resort in the desert, they gave 50-K to the UN for world food relief.This is AMERICA we built the Empire State Building in 18 Months we can do anything just give us a chance. My friends Grandfather owns land out side of Salt Lake City, I've been to the mountain there's a capped well it's got oil but the peanut grower locked it up with his stupid policies. Yes we still need NGV's

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