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  • VW TDI

    I'm glad I don't own a 2009-2015 VW diesel gross polluter, actually I'm glad I don't own any VW product.

    VW's new claim to fame will be the biggest fraud in automotive history unfortunately.
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  • #2
    well I wish I had few of these as the ones without the new software to fix the problem will become sought after for their power and fuel mileage in the years to come. if I had one it would never go back to the dealer for any reason. I find it hard to think any car that gets the kind of mileage about 1/60th of a gallon per mile could have much of anything left of the fuel to run out of the tailpipe . I bet that one of the American diesel pickup trucks puts more grams of everything that is bad in the air per mile than the little vw. if I am right lets just outlaw American pickups (sarcasm)

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    • #3
      I am not sure where I stand on this right now and I am right in the middle of it. I recently bought (July) a 2015 Jetta TD! to supplement my aging Cavalier on longer trips. I was starting to worry about the reliability of the Cavalier as it approaches 150K but still running good. I have a feeling the 2015's and onward might meet the standard (or be able to do it) without major changes. The engine starting in 2015 was all new and uses a SCR (selective catalytic reduction) system with Urea for NOX reduction. If you were going to continue a fraud that was going good for you for the past several years you would continue to use the LNT (lean NOX trap) system and not invest in the more expensive and complex system used on the new engine. European regulators have only included the EA 189 engine (2009-2014) in their investigation. Nobody at the EPA has yet tested the new EA 288 engine to see how it performs---just a blanket stop sale of all diesel VW's in the U.S. The car I own is averaging a little over 50 mpg since new. Highway mpg is in the mid 50's at 70 to 75 mph. I am very pleased with the way the car runs and drives. That being said, Volkswagen took advantage of a regulatory system that writes rules but puts the certification of those rules back in the house of the manufacturer and created a system to game the testing. This is outright fraud. Fraud on the purchasers, fraud on the dealers, fraud on the employees and shareholders of the company and cannot be excused or overlooked. I just hope that when this all settles out, those that were defrauded receive some benefit for being defrauded, not just governments and lawyers. The chance of that happening is less then zero.

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      • #4
        siai47 - Your 2015 Jetta TDI has SCR/urea?

        Model year 2016 VW and Audi 4 banger TDI's are being held at ports in US, considered to be non-compliant so far. I saw they also failed in a big way but not to same degree as previous non SCR versions.
        Last edited by GX-SV; 09-26-2015, 02:38 PM. Reason: 2015 and 2016 TDI's same
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        • #5
          I haven't seen anything yet about an actual test on the 2015 and later engine. It didn't even exist when WVU did their tests on the older engine---which brought the issue to the forefront. I would assume that, until a proper test can be carried out, all Volkswagen diesels should and are being held up for sale. After being blindsided by VW, the EPA has to err on the side of caution. And yes, the EA 288 engine used since the 2015 model year does have SCR and urea. The only car that I have ever owned that had a tailpipe as clean as the Jetta I have (at least for a white glove test) was my 2006 GX. Some of the systems like the particulate filter must be working. CO2 seems to be under control, it's just the NOX that appears to be out of control. Just time to wait and see. The Jetta is parked next to the Cavalier---maybe something good from the CNG car will rub off on the VW!

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          • #6
            very funny I am reading siai47s post and what pops up but a add for vw recall attorneys. low life scum bottom feeders. it aint sorted out yet and the rascals are circling.

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            • #7
              all this diesel nonsense and VW makes perfectly good OEM CNG/Bi-Fuel vehicles overseas, wish they would bring this technology to the states

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              • #8
                Diesel cars and European automakers are married, and the resulting pollution without truly effective controls is a mess. VW did profit heavily with this arrangement, as they fell behind in automotive clean technology.
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                • #9
                  VW's disasterous fraud fiasco worsens by the day. Expect huge losses/provisions in Q4 for potential liabilities.
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                  • #10
                    In House Sub-Committee hearings today ( story and video http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...009-story.html , video takes some time to load the video) Horn from VW heid up well under congrssional brow beating , didn't get ruffled.

                    This thing isn't going to sink VW but don't expect anything but full year losses for 2015-16 . It will sink some US VW Dealers IMO

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                    • #11
                      German government will make sure VW doesn't sink.

                      The size of the losses will be huge and severely weaken VW's financial position.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GX-SV View Post
                        I'm glad I don't own a 2009-2015 VW diesel gross polluter ...
                        Don't lose supply chain focus here.



                        It really does not matter if the majority of the pollution happens on the frontend (production of fuel) or on the tailend (consumption of fuel) the second law of thermal dynamics basically ensures that there will be pollution. As with most things in life, fossil based "clean fuels" is nothing more than a shell game. The question is not what is the most "clean" but really it is what is the "least dirty". And since the producers of fossil fuels lothe to disclose anything about their processes (eg - fracking fluids) we really do not have a truthful, full picture and are simply left with a subjective "least dirty" assumption based upon a visual inspection of our tailpipes.

                        Regarding VW et al. They deserve whatever the future holds for them.

                        Let'em burn.


                        “Innovation is driven by having access to things.” -- Gleb Budman, CEO of backblaze.com

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jblue View Post
                          Don't lose supply chain focus here.



                          It really does not matter if the majority of the pollution happens on the frontend (production of fuel) or on the tailend (consumption of fuel) the second law of thermal dynamics basically ensures that there will be pollution. As with most things in life, fossil based "clean fuels" is nothing more than a shell game. The question is not what is the most "clean" but really it is what is the "least dirty". And since the producers of fossil fuels lothe to disclose anything about their processes (eg - fracking fluids) we really do not have a truthful, full picture and are simply left with a subjective "least dirty" assumption based upon a visual inspection of our tailpipes.

                          Regarding VW et al. They deserve whatever the future holds for them.

                          Let'em burn.
                          Yes, we know all that supply chain stuff, and none of that makes a fake "clean TDI diesel" any cleaner when it's not. Emissions of Nox at 10-40 times legal limit is bad enough, whether words used were "clean" or "less dirty". VW has a limited set of controllables which they chose to cheat on.

                          VW certainly is feeling a lot of self-inflicted pain as a company. Watch em burn, agreed.
                          Last edited by GX-SV; 10-13-2015, 10:55 AM.
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                          • #14
                            If you have been following this whole VW mess, it looks like a can of worms has been opened. European testers have now been looking at all Diesel powered cars on the market and when testing them on the road, most are failing to meet the NOX standards. The VW cars in the defeat mode actually do better then many vehicles from other manufacturers. With over half of the passenger cars in Europe Diesel powered there is a real problem. For us, Diesel cars are fairly rare so the problem isn't really bad for us (from an emission standpoint) but we sure have a bunch of light Diesel pickups here. The EPA is going to look at all Diesel vehicles in the US, as a start and then all vehicles regardless of fuel source to see what is really going on. This is just the tip of the iceberg---so hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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                            • #15
                              Yes, I've been following the worldwide VW fiasco, VW is becoming the poster child for the stinky/filthy diesel passenger car pollution problem in Europe, not a good thing for VW brand. Thanks to the fraud and deception by VW, the visibility on failed diesel policies in Europe will receive the attention they should have years ago. 'Bout time.

                              In the US, VW pretty much killed off passenger car diesel which was only a small percentage of market pre-fiasco.

                              "TDI Clean diesel" is a lame and inaccurate name, even if running legally, these diesels are not cleaner than modern gasoline engines.

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