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  • Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

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  • #2
    Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

    I wonder how big the Pilot deal really is. I haven't seen anything on the number of stations, the schedule, or how the stations will be financed.

    This is a positive development, but when will I be able to drive from LA to Phoenix?

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    • #3
      Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

      The only specific information that I could find about the location/s is one in Baytown, TX.

      Link: truckinginfo.com/news/news-detail.asp?news_id=71839 (cant post link yet)

      Cheers!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

        Here's the link:
        http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/new...?news_id=71839

        Very strange place for first Flying J location of CNG in terms of potential traffic. Baytown, TX is small 67,000 population town 26 mi from Houston but is off of the main highway 10 between Houston and Beaumont, TX. Probably "swimming" in nearly free NG as byproduct of other petroleum processing in Houston area so maybe this is test site.

        Go figure.

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        • #5
          Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

          CE recently told me that they are building about 4 new stations a month throughout the country. Many of these are probably funded through ARRA funds. The idea is to eliminate the chicken and the egg syndrom. If the fuel is there, then the trucks will (theoretically) follow... and so will we in our little NGV's.

          As far as Phoenix goes... No A/C, cool temps, a really good top-off, 55mph and a slight tail wind and you can make it now. You're right at the edge of the new GX range but you'd probably fall a tad short in one of the earlier models.
          Last edited by Curtis; 10-19-2010, 08:17 PM.
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          • #6
            Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

            Curtis, What changed with the new GX to extend the range?

            Thanks

            Chris

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            • #7
              Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

              The station in Baytown makes a lot of sense. I am there all the time. You have a lot of large refuge type trucks that run the ports hauling containers. Perfect sell for CE to hit up the port and to get all those trucks converted. You know Boone Pickens doenst do anything without a plan.
              sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
              SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

              2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
              2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
              1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
              2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

              FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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              • #8
                Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                Even though the car is larger and has a bigger engine, the efficiency of the iVtec engine, aerodynamic improvements and a 5 speed transmission gave it a small, but significant, mileage advantage over previous models.
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                • #9
                  Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                  Thanks Curtis!

                  Chris

                  PS I look forward to a member's review and the mileage numbers.
                  Last edited by SCChris; 10-20-2010, 10:58 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                    Hooray for more CNG dispensers on the highways, but why San Diego which has plenty already. How about I-5 between Santa Clarita and Los Banos, or I-10 near the CA/AZ border? Comfortable drive from Phoenix to Thousand Palms in my 06 GX -- don't think I even had the light go on.
                    02 GX
                    01 GX
                    03 Crown Vic
                    06 GX
                    Home Fueler

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                    • #11
                      Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                      I agree. I-10 stations east and west out of Phoenix make sense. Also I-40 stations like Flagstaff. Has anyone heard if any are planned for those areas? The I-10 and I-40 stations could set us free in Phoenix. We would no longer be trapped in the Valley of the Sun.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                        We'll ALL be trapped if USA lets CE/GE charge whatever it wants and buy up monopoly territories of public cng pumps while still gourging itself on the subsidy/grant feeding trough. Now Phoenix only has the one affordable public cng at the school. Murphy was right, CE couldn't be trusted to buyout all of AZ. There NEEDS to be competition!!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                          Clean Energy just reported their most recent quarter. Again a loss. In fact, they have never made any money. As a result, it's hard for me to call them GE until they actually make money.

                          I know it seems like they should be able to supply NG at a lower rate, but before we get too outraged, let's admit that it's harder than it looks.

                          Here is the harsh reality. If a real commercial station costs a million dollars, and if you can make 50 cents a gge, you need to sell 2 million gge in order to get your million back. That's without any allowance for maintenance or time value of money. If you are filling up NGVs that take 10 gge at a fill, you need to fill 100 cars a day for 6 years.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                            For book and tax purposes, yeah I bet CE/GE is posting a loss - - that's because they're using accellerated depreciation, Section 179 writeoffs, etc. that make it look as bleak as possible. However, for internal mgmt only purposes (ie T Boone Pickens, etc), I'd bet they have cash flow projections and cash flow analysis that show they are right on track to their game plan. Companies of that size don't just buy ENTIRE NETWORKS of cng pumps (ie entire State of NY, entire state of CO, network of pumps in AZ, etc) without structured and measurable profit points in the future.

                            Besides, CE public stations have nothing to do with pidly little 10 gge fills, as majority of customers are large volume fillers like trash trucks, metro buses, port authority tractor trailers on CNG or LNG, etc. I'd be willing to bet that payback on subsidized new stations run in the 2 to 4 year payback range.

                            I've been at Denver Intl Airport at 3 am when those buses are filling up and they all were taking 40 to 50 gge each, AND the driver said they typically fill about every couple days !! I'd bet you DIA is right on track for payback in shorter period like 2 to 3 years.

                            With commodity NG prices at recent dip to $3.60 per Mcf, there's massive room for profits by CE/GE with their highest pricing of all providers in entire USA. This is all part of CE strategy to build critical mass of nationwide pumps on subsidized nickel.
                            Last edited by cngacrossusa; 11-10-2010, 08:59 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Clean Energy, Pilot Flying J to Build Public Stations

                              This is not a parlor trick. If you look at the numbers, Clean Energy is bleeding cash. They needed more money, so this week they announced a stock offering to raise another $40 million. In addition, interest by investors was so low that the offering was priced below expectations.

                              Don't get me wrong. I am critical of how CE is run. They don't do as good a job of spending their cash as they should. They do not have a great reputation with their customers (like me).

                              My point here is that this is harder than it looks. Yes, they charge retail consumers 30 to 50 cents more than most competitors, but even that doesn't turn them into a profitable entity.

                              The barriers to entry into the profitable part of this business are low. If you have a fleet of 10 or more vehicles, you can profitably compress your own gas. Unless there is a huge increase in CNG use, CE's future is uncertain at best...

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