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Who needs LNG for trucks?

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  • #31
    Robert Carrick FREIGHTLINER shares knowledge about today’s CNG fuel systems having a range of up to 600 miles. Kurt Swihart, marketing director at Kenworth - says there has been a decline in LNG prep packages:

    http://www.greenfleetmagazine.com/ch...l-systems.aspx
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    • #32
      Interesting. Are the refueling systems that CNG trucks are using the same type that are used for private vehicles?

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      • #33
        CNG stations catering to Class 8 trucks usually have additional equipment:
        * Significantly increased on-site storage - for example 6 tubes rather than 3
        * Higher horsepower compressors and more of them (at least 2 or 3)
        * At least one special dispenser with large diameter fill hoses and large diameter fill connectors

        That being said, any of them can also accommodate small vehicles too with at least one hose having a standard fill connector. You just get filled REALLY fast

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        • Chip Marce
          Chip Marce commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for the reply, John. So I guess my next question would be, why the lack of available stations when it would appear that the commercial fleets are expanding their CNG footprint? You'd assume the opposite.

      • #34
        Originally posted by Chip Marce View Post
        Interesting. Are the refueling systems that CNG trucks are using the same type that are used for private vehicles?
        Yes and NO . A lot of heavy truck and bus vehicles with large cng capacity have a large capacity fuel port, and a typical smaller one the is used on light vehicles as a backup.

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        • #35
          Ya beat me to the reply John.

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          • #36
            Depending on how the CNG vs LNG power eventually settles out, expect to see DIESEL offered in the same fueling lane as CNG to accommodate the DUAL FUEL upfits, such as from American Power Group.

            http://www.americanpowergroupinc.com...nversions.html


            http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...all-and-large/


            Xpress Natural Gas (XNG) uses six all-CNG Freightliners with the 11.9-liter ISX12 G engine from Cummins Westport and, especially for weights of more than 80,000 pounds, three dual fuel Freightliner Columbia trucks with 14 liter Detroit Diesel engines outfitted for CNG with kits from Floridas Diesel 2 Gas. XNG operations executive VP John Friedson says he favors the D2G dual fuel conversions for their simplicity. For me, ease of maintenance is a major factor, Friedson says. D2Gs dual fuel system, he says, is one of the simplest systems out there. XNG has 50 TITAN tube trailers made by Lincoln Composites which, when loaded with CNG, weigh 80,000 lb (empty weight 78,000).

            Of course, the best side-by-side comparison ever made was the data collected on LNG, CNG and DIESEL in the Parley Canyon test over a decade ago:


            LNGCNGDiesel_Mitton_ParleyCanyon.JPG XNG_Townsend0.jpg
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            • #37
              Total Transportation Services, Inc. (TTSI), one of largest drayage trucking companies in the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, has begun using one of the first Cummins Westport (CWI) ISX12 G low-NOx natural gas engines for its trucking operations.

              Rob Neitzke, Pres of Cummins Westport, says the 12-liter engine will be available for order later this year. The 12-liter engine will be certified by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to produce 90% less NOx than the current EPA standard for heavy-duty engines and emissions are equivalent to that of a truck powered by electricity from the electrical grid.

              In 2016 Cummins Westport began full production of the 8.9-liter ISL G low-NOx engine, and has shipped engines to bus and refuse truck OEMs. The ISX12 G low-NOx engine is based on the 12-liter ISX12 G first introduced in 2012, and will start production early next year. CWI anticipates a large demand for this heavy-duty alternative-fuel truck engine.

              http://www.ngvjournal.com/ports-in-l...s-cng-engines/
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              • #38
                Worthington Industries Inc. has type 3 rail-mount CNG fuel system that features only five unique parts and is claimed to be the lightest fuel system on the market.

                The first seven systems, which are being manufactured at Worthington s Salt Lake City facility, will be shipped this month to Food Express Inc. Arcadia, CA-based fleet. Food Express specializes in for-hire dry bulk food commodity transportation:

                https://ngtnews.com/worthington-roll...News+Headlines
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                • #39
                  Originally posted by 300mileclub View Post
                  Depending on how the CNG vs LNG power eventually settles out, expect to see DIESEL offered in the same fueling lane as CNG to accommodate the DUAL FUEL upfits, such as from American Power Group.

                  http://www.americanpowergroupinc.com...nversions.html


                  http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...all-and-large/


                  Xpress Natural Gas (XNG) uses six all-CNG Freightliners with the 11.9-liter ISX12 G engine from Cummins Westport and, especially for weights of more than 80,000 pounds, three dual fuel Freightliner Columbia trucks with 14 liter Detroit Diesel engines outfitted for CNG with kits from Floridas Diesel 2 Gas. XNG operations executive VP John Friedson says he favors the D2G dual fuel conversions for their simplicity. For me, ease of maintenance is a major factor, Friedson says. D2Gs dual fuel system, he says, is one of the simplest systems out there. XNG has 50 TITAN tube trailers made by Lincoln Composites which, when loaded with CNG, weigh 80,000 lb (empty weight 78,000).

                  Of course, the best side-by-side comparison ever made was the data collected on LNG, CNG and DIESEL in the Parley Canyon test over a decade ago:


                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]n144213[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]n144214[/ATTACH]
                  so we are using a tractor trailer to haul about 300 gge dont sound smart to me 2000 lbs payload can we spell stupid? my big ford has about 300 gge and I use 2000 lbs for a number for fuel weight for gross weight calculations. and keep in mind this is motor fuel not pay load why build a truck that can haul such a small % of its weight as payload STUPID

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                  • #40
                    eBay has a 2011 Kenworth T800 with 120K miles in Fontana CA at a buy-it-now price of $23,900:

                    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-Kenwort.../391887162770?
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                    • #41
                      Driver for Kroger in Portland Oregon offered a couple of comments about the LNG tractors his yard has had in service. Said the LNG tank does not hold enough fuel to match the range of the diesel truck he happened to be driving today. And there is no road service option to fall back on of having more fuel brought out to the rig. Also said there were so many pressure gages he questioned if the fuel system might be dangerous. Clearly not an informed opinion since LNG is not under much pressure and may actually be safer in an accident should it be released.
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                      • #42
                        The truck driver can look to TruckingInfo online magazine to learn about LNG:

                        1. LNG has been used for decades by utilities as a way to store natural gas in the summer months when it is in less demand, then put it back into the pipeline system in the winter when demand is high.

                        2. Since January 2016, LNG has been taxed at approximately the same rate as diesel. One of the things that really held LNG back was that LNG was taxed on a per gallon basis, but it took 1.7 LNG gallons to have the same diesel equivalent of energy.

                        3. LNG is a very pure form of methane. Regular natural gas coming from a pipeline has contaminants such as ethane, nitrogen, propane, carbon dioxide and butane. Most of this drops out and is left behind during the liquefaction process. In addition, LNG does not have moisture or oil that can be in CNG.

                        4. LNG is not explosive or flammable. It has to return to vapor form in order to be flammable, and even then, it has to be in a very narrow ratio of LNG-to-air before it can ignite.

                        5. You don not have to worry about spill clean-up like you do with diesel. LNG vaporizes into the air, and does not mix with water.

                        6. You can use LNG without being near a natural gas pipeline, although you do need to be within a certain radius of a liquefaction plant. The LNG is pumped into special cryogenic tanker trucks and delivered to fleet or truckstop fueling facilities.

                        7. LNG is often cited as not being a good choice for vehicles that sit for long periods. Jaskolski notes that SAE standards require LNG fuel tanks to hold the fuel without venting for five days. For most trucking operations, he says, If you have got a truck sitting for more than five days, you have got bigger issues to worry about than venting.

                        8. LNG does not require extensive personal protective gear. What’s recommended is gloves and safety glasses; a coverall or apron is also a good idea. LNG is very, very cold. The best way to look at it is, how would you handle a pizza in the oven? The difference in temperature between your finger and the hot pizza oven is about the same as the difference in temperature between your finger and LNG. You have to use some reasonable judgement and be careful.”

                        9. When you do a fast fill with LNG, you get a full fill. That’s not the case with CNG. With CNG, if you are going to fast-fill a truck, the heat of compression causes that gas to be hot as it goes into the cylinder. As it cools off, it contracts, and there is not as much fuel in the tank as you thought. With LNG, since it is a liquid, it is going to fill a full fill.

                        10. If you have an LNG fueling facility on site, you can also get CNG off the same system. Called LCNG, it offers a cold fast fill without the heat of compression.

                        http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/...about-lng.aspx
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                        • #43
                          Rich Piellisch for Fleets & Fuels Aug 3, 2017 - In the heavy duty trucking sector, Clean Energy reports the addition of three large U.S. Postal Service carriers to its customer list bringing the total to 13 operators. They include one of the largest Post Office carriers, St. Augustine, Fla.-based Postal Fleet Services and as well as Thunder Ridge Transport, a carrier servicing 13 states, and Edward Zengel & Sons, also based out of Florida. . .

                          http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...-year-roundup/
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