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Who needs LNG for trucks?

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  • #16
    Re: Who needs LNG for trucks?

    I think the propane industry is greedy. I see such a spread in prices across the country. At the "dock" in Calif I pay over $3.00 per gal, (and there other places where over $4), in Washington I usually pay about $1.60. Someone is making money and not keeping the benefits at home -- in the USA

    Larrycng

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    • #17
      Linde Has a New Liquefied Natural Gas Refueling Concept by NGT News Apr 10, 2013

      Linde North America says it has developed a proprietary liquefied natural gas (LNG) refueling station design that the company is planning to roll out in the U.S. by the end of the year.

      "Linde's new station design is the latest in a series of initiatives we are implementing to facilitate broader adoption of LNG to fuel vehicles, oil and gas drilling and completion equipment, and marine vessels," says Jonathan Harris, merchant LNG technology manager for Linde's Energy Solutions division. "We intend to continue to escalate our commitment to making it easy, safe and economical for fleets to switch to LNG fuel."

      The compact, modular LNG station leverages an integrated design that is scalable and can be installed relatively quickly, according to Linde. Also, these facilities will "eliminate station boil-off gas by using novel applications of on-the-fly saturation and LIN-assist cryogenic cooling techniques."

      The first deployment of the concept will be at Linde's own facility in Springville, Ind., where the company's LNG truck fleet will refuel and potential customers can see how the technology works. Commercial launch of the new design is anticipated in the near future.

      http://www.ngtnews.com/e107_plugins/...9#.UWbVZ89BvOo
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      • #18
        CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

        Weight analysis of LNG/CNG tank systems using specifications found online for leading tank-system manufacturers.

        Agility (CA): uses all-composite Quantum and Lincoln tanks http://www.agilityfuelsystems.com
        Fontaine (NC) http://www.fontainemodification.com/...ive-fuels/cxgh Fontaine (no specs available online)
        McNeilus (MN): NGEN CNG systems http://mcneiluscompanies.com/CNG-Pow...ation-cng.html
        Quantum Fuel Systems Technologies Worldwide (CA): Q-CabLITE CNG module http://www.qtww.com/fuelsystems
        Trilogy (OH) http://trilogy-es.comhttp://www.westport.com/engineering/fuel-storage/

        In addition, innovative benefits found in different packages, such as no straps, dual regulators, dash gage display instead of at fill receptacle, make it important to check with the different fuel system suppliers to become informed with what is available.

        ______weight
        dge/cyl w/fuel mfg configuration (back of cab, front of cab, roof mounted, side rail)
        17/1 426 CNG Agility rail

        27/1 588 CNG Quantum rail

        30/1 635 CNG Agility rail
        30/1 639 CNG Quantum rail
        30/2 775 CNG Agility back

        40/1 550 LNG Agility rail
        40/1 820 CNG Agility rail

        41/1 846 CNG Quantum rail

        43/1 1400 CNG Trilogy rail

        45/1 899 CNG Agility rail

        46/1 890 CNG Quantum rail

        50/2 1125 CNG Agility back

        54/2 1163 CNG Quantum rail

        60/1 1100 CNG Agility rail
        60/1 1245 LNG Westport rail
        60/2 1256 CNG Quantum rail
        60/4 1350 CNG Agility back
        60/4 1350 CNG Agility roof
        60/4 1400 CNG Agility roof
        60/4 1510 CNG Agility front
        60/4 1800 CNG Agility roof
        60/- CNG Mcneilus roof
        60/- CNG Mcneilus back
        60/- CNG Mcneilus front

        65/1 885 LNG Agility rail

        75/5 1675 CNG Agility roof
        75/5 2050 CNG Agility back
        75/3 2085 CNG Agility back
        75/3 2196 CNG Agility front
        75/- CNG Mcneilus roof
        75/- CNG Mcneilus back

        80/1 1065 LNG Agility rail
        80/1 1100 LNG Agility rail
        80/4 1650 CNG Agility roof
        80/4 1900 CNG Agility roof

        81/- CNG Mcneilus roof+rail

        82/2 1669 CNG Quantum rail

        90/- CNG Mcneilus roof+rail

        93/2 1756 CNG Quantum rail

        96/- CNG Mcneilus roof+rail

        100/4 2149 CNG Agility roof
        100/4 2149 CNG Agility roof
        100/4 2600 CNG Agility back

        105/- CNG Mcneilus roof+rail

        112/3 2700 CNG Trilogy back

        120/1 1590 LNG Westport rail
        120/3 2375 CNG Agility back

        130/1 1770 LNG Agility rail
        131/4 3000 CNG Agility back

        148/3 3000 CNG Trilogy back

        160/1 2130 LNG Agility rail
        160/4 3469 CNG Agility back

        163/3 3190 CNG Trilogy back
        .

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        • #19
          Re: CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

          Ashley White Sustainability Mgr for Kroger out of Compton CA was introduced by Rick Wallace of the Oregon Dept of Energy at the Clean Cities awards luncheon 5 Feb 2015 in Portland. The LNG project for Kroger, which is the nations largest traditional grocer with 2700 stores, was the first to be put into operation in Oregon. Kroger has 1200 of their own trucks nationwide plus 1800 third party that service their 34 distribution centers. They operate 24/7 363 days/yr with some trucks having 100,000mi/yr.

          Having their own LNG fueling on site serves their hub & spoke operations, but the trucks are constrained by tight operations behind stores and so they asked Freightliner for a shorter LNG truck than had ever been built to meet length and turning radius constraints. After looking at CNG, LNG, EV, and Hybrid/fuel cell, natural gas was selected to provide the needed power and range which could be as much as 350 miles in one shift The Oregon distribution center has a 100 truck fleet of which 40 will be LNG. To date, 29 have been delivered and 20 are in service.
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          • #20
            Re: CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

            Portland, Oregon Kroger Foods distribution facility LNG tractors sport new graphics - it's as much about corporate image as it is cost savings. LNG on-site fueling facility was built by CLEAN ENERGY in late 2014. Fuel is brought in by tanker from Nampa ID for the 40 LNG tractors in the 100 truck fleet.
            Attached Files
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            • #21
              Re: CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

              Originally posted by 300mileclub View Post
              Ashley White Sustainability Mgr for Kroger out of Compton CA was introduced by Rick Wallace of the Oregon Dept of Energy at the Clean Cities awards luncheon 5 Feb 2015 in Portland. The LNG project for Kroger, which is the nations largest traditional grocer with 2700 stores, was the first to be put into operation in Oregon. Kroger has 1200 of their own trucks nationwide plus 1800 third party that service their 34 distribution centers. They operate 24/7 363 days/yr with some trucks having 100,000mi/yr.

              Having their own LNG fueling on site serves their hub & spoke operations, but the trucks are constrained by tight operations behind stores and so they asked Freightliner for a shorter LNG truck than had ever been built to meet length and turning radius constraints. After looking at CNG, LNG, EV, and Hybrid/fuel cell, natural gas was selected to provide the needed power and range which could be as much as 350 miles in one shift without refueling. The fuel price differential when project started was $2. Diesel just became less cost than LNG this year on the exact date they had their press release, 4 Dec 2014. LNG will, again, be cheaper when the $.50/gge Federal tax credit is reinstated.

              The LNG testing was done in southern CA because LNG was available there and maintenance could be done through the winter when it wasn’t cold and wet. Kroger looked at a tank comparison chart that looked like the one in the last post: gge; #tanks; weight; tank placement. In the end, a 5 tank CNG package could’ve worked (if the longer truck length was ignored), but it would weigh an additional 2000lb meaning a pallet would have had to have been left off of each truck.

              Kroger put it’s very first LNG trucks in Oregon because of the $490,000 grant from the Federal Highway Administration via ODOT for the LNG infrastructure. The Oregon distribution center has a 100 truck fleet of which 40 will be LNG. To date, 29 have been delivered and 20 are in service.
              need shorter trucks because they are constrained by tight operations behind stores. I have never not got in the door because my truck was too long. I have always run long trucks because they ride good and I can haul more fuel and that my friends is the best paying freight you can get. what they need is to hire truck drivers not wheel holders.I am so glad a poor small company like kroger was able to build this station with my and your money. it is not like kroger could not build it with there own money. this is just crap when the government takes from the little guy and gives it to the big guys.there is so much savings burning cng or lng that it should not take the government (us) paying for the change over. if their bean counters are any count at all it is a no brainer

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

                Originally posted by 300mileclub View Post
                Ashley White Sustainability Mgr for Kroger out of Compton CA was introduced by Rick Wallace of the Oregon Dept of Energy at the Clean Cities awards luncheon 5 Feb 2015 in Portland. The LNG project for Kroger, which is the nations largest traditional grocer with 2700 stores, was the first to be put into operation in Oregon. Kroger has 1200 of their own trucks nationwide plus 1800 third party that service their 34 distribution centers. They operate 24/7 363 days/yr with some trucks having 100,000mi/yr.

                Having their own LNG fueling on site serves their hub & spoke operations, but the trucks are constrained by tight operations behind stores and so they asked Freightliner for a shorter LNG truck than had ever been built to meet length and turning radius constraints. After looking at CNG, LNG, EV, and Hybrid/fuel cell, natural gas was selected to provide the needed power and range which could be as much as 350 miles in one shift The Oregon distribution center has a 100 truck fleet of which 40 will be LNG. To date, 29 have been delivered and 20 are in service.
                need shorter trucks because they are constrained by tight operations behind stores. I have never not got in the door because my truck was too long. I have always run long trucks because they ride good and I can haul more fuel and that my friends is the best paying freight you can get. what they need is to hire truck drivers not wheel holders.I am so glad a poor small company like kroger was able to build this station with my and your money. it is not like kroger could not build it with there own money. this is just crap when the government takes from the little guy and gives it to the big guys.there is so much savings burning cng or lng that it should not take the government (us) paying for the change over. if their bean counters are any count at all it is a no brainer

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: CNG/LNG tank system weight comparison among suppliers

                  cowboy couldn't agree more, cng, lng, solar, windpower none of them will ever survive if they are not economically viable. government subsidies and grants just slows down the process by rewarding lobbyist and parasites instead of innovators.

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                  • #24
                    2014 LOVES study details CNG | LNG | Diesel cost comparison (pg.6), truck purchase ROI (pg. 8) and truck fuel range (page 12):

                    http://www.loves.com/portals/0/Image...er05-02-14.pdf


                    LOVES_cost.png LOVES_ROI.png LOVES_range.png
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                    • #25
                      New tank configuration from McNeilus combines side mount and back of cab. Clearance provided for trailer swing and allowing visibility to line up hitch while coupling.

                      http://ngtnews.com/mcneilus-installs...News+Headlines
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                      • #26
                        Trilogys CNG Fuel Technology sold to Worthington Industries and operations moved to Salt Lake City

                        http://www.ttnews.com/articles/baset...?storyid=39969
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                        • #27
                          Matheson Kenworth T680 sleeper cabs now in service between Seattle and Los Angeles hauling US Mail have 4 CNG tanks mounted behind the cab which hold a total of 160 gge. In the long listing of a prior post, this tank package was shown as 3469 lb when full. Current info on the Agility website says this package has been improved and now weighs 2150 lb.

                          http://www.agilityfuelsystems.com/new-2016-160-dge.html

                          CNG_ACT2016_q.jpg


                          Matheson also operates T880 day cabs out of Oakland CA using LNG. Though the right side of the truck in the photo wasn't visible, it likely has dual LNG tanks on the side rails for a total of three tanks! Again, in the long listing from the prior post, the large capacity LNG tank setups should have been shown as 120/2; 130/2; and 160/2 (meaning 120 diesel gal equivalent (dge) in two tanks, for example). If the 160 dge twin tanks weigh 2130 lb in the listing, an estimate for 3 tanks would be 3195 lb holding a staggering 240 dge! It could be that all three LNG tanks in truck in photo each hold 60 dge for a total of 180 dge - which would be similar to the fuel load held by Matheson's CNG tractors.

                          The big rigs operated by Frito-Lay in Beloit get more than 6 mpg on natural gas. A truck using 10 dge/hr could be operated more than 18 hours before needing fuel. (Matheson switches drivers in Eugene Oregon for the CNG sleeper cabs meaning the trucks can be operated for more hours than a single driver's log book would allow.) It is clear that Matheson wants the big trucks to spend as little time as possible with fuel stops by installing the longest range fuel packages possible in both the CNG and LNG cases.


                          LNG_Matheson_sacramento_1.jpg
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                          • #28
                            http://www.momentumfueltech.com
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                            • #29
                              Agility Fuel Solutions now offers Blue iQ, its newest natural gas fuel product. Blue iQ integrates Cummins Connected Diagnostics, INSITE service tool, and QuickServe support to connect vehicles, drivers, managers, and technicians for real-time management, diagnostics, and service.

                              In addition, Blue iQ is the only tool that has access to Cummins proprietary engine data. Its Smart Gauge dashboard has Vehicle Range Monitor to determine how far drivers can go with the gas on board, EcoMode to help avoid unplanned refueling at low fuel levels, and Limp Home Mode to get drivers safely out of traffic at extremely low fuel levels. There is even Cold Start Logic to ensure no downtime on cold mornings.

                              http://ngv.com/agility-introduces-bl...el-technology/
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                              • #30
                                adding up to 30 percent more fuel on boardhttp://ngv.com/cryoshelters-introduc...nks-to-market/
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