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Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

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  • Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

    A 2008 Honda Civic GX (model years 2006 thru present have the 5 speed providing sufficient range) was used for the East/West trip along Interstate 40. Speed was kept low and air conditioning off during the longest trip legs so as to arrive with 1/8 tank or more. This route can have snow from November to March, requiring snow chains during and after storms until the road can be cleared.

    The truck stop LCNG stations in Winslow, Fort Worth and San Antonio take VISA/MC. Just enter two digits - example, “05” - when prompted for a vehicle number. Debit card also worked. There can also be a large green button on these truck station CNG dispensers that is labeled, “Press before swiping card.” Actually, it is better NOT to press this button - it is to adjust the price for PUC fuel sales and seems to confuse the card reader if a VISA/MC is used. This is the purest methane you will ever put in your car!

    At most of the stops in OK and TX, big rigs would arrive while I was there to fuel with CNG or LNG (at the LCNG stations.)

    My deepest thanks go to Curtis (spearheaded Blythe station), JetBoatJohnny (wouldn’t talk me out of making the trip), and the demand created by the big rig CNG trucks which resulted in opening up this Southwest cross-country route. An extra fuel tank is no longer required for Civics. As they say, “You are now free to roam about the country” using public fueling.

    miles/gge
    Day 1 Eastbound (19 Aug 2014)
    000/0.0 Hemet CA RTA
    159/4.0 Blythe CA City of Blythe

    Day 2 (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)
    165/4.4 Phoenix AZ CleanGreen WM
    187/4.1 Winslow AZ LCNG CE
    000/0.1 Winslow AZ (fill again after 3 hr)
    269/4.4 Albuquerque NM Sky Harbor Airport CE (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)

    Day 3
    000/0.5 Albuquerque NM Univ (fill again after 10 hr)
    295/4.1 Amarillo TX AMP Trillium (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)

    Day 4
    242/5.8 Lawton Loves (out-of-fuel lamp on due to getting lost)
    148/3.9 Thackerville Chickasaw
    081/2.2 1075 Everman Pkwy, Fort Worth TX LCNG CE

    Day 5
    095/2.9 Waco TX Trillium AMP Trillium

    Day 6
    173/4.3 Austin TX Int’l Airport CE
    134/5.1 San Antonio TX CE LCNG

    Day 7 Westbound
    000/0.0 Austin TX Pinnacle
    114/2.8 Bryan TX CNG4America (Side trip to use Cngchat’s Bob Baldwin’s station)
    091/3.7 Waco TX AMP Trillium
    084/1.4 1075 Everman Pkwy, Fort Worth TX LCNG CE

    Day 8
    089/3.4 Thackerville OK Chickasaw
    069/1.4 Paul Valley OK Loves
    130/2.9 Weatherford OK OnCue
    041/1.5 Elk City OK
    141/3.4 Amarillo TX AMP Trillium
    000/0.2 Amarillo TX AMP Trillium (fill again after 1 hr)
    293/5.0 Albuquerque NM Univ (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)

    Day 9 (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)
    000/0.9 Albuquerque NM Univ (fill again after 9 hr)
    268/4.6 Winslow AZ LCNG CE (50 mph, tires 40 psi, no A/C)
    210/4.1 Phoenix AZ Sky Harbor CE

    Day 10 (28 Aug 2014)
    156/3.1 Blythe CA
    096/3.0 Indio CA SunLine CE
    Attached Files
    .

  • #2
    Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

    my thoughts are add a 1gge tank and run the ac it gets real hot in the sw. If I pay for ac I intend to use it. why would I buy a car that has too small a tank to run the ac. and running 50 mph YOU ARE A HAZARD TO YOURSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THE ROAD.You could end up stuck in the air intake of a big truck.LOL

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

      Agree with cowboy. Most customers would never consider CNG if they read your post. Seems like a nightmare and big inconvenience. Something must be wrong with you engine if you cant run over 50mph with the AC on. Further, this is another reason why bi-fuel conversions are so great... you dont have to sweat when low on CNG.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

        The critical unknown for this run was if the bank card would activate the Winslow LCNG dispenser. There was the small “hitch” encountered of having to enter a two-digit code (any numbers work) for the vehicle number prompt. The CLEAN ENERGY guy I had been in touch with prior to the trip was able to talk me through this small dilemma at 4:50 pm while I was still able to reach him on Wednesday.

        As for driving 50 on an interstate posted for 75. My technique is to study each vehicle approaching from behind to check that they are not distracted and that they begin to pull around me. Two or three times in the 5000 miles of this trip, I drove on the shoulder until the vehicle overtook me. At night (cooler, less wind), I would use my flashers to alert the big rigs that they would need to pass. I agree that this is hazardous.

        What I found was that I arrived at the fuel station - after each of the 250+ mile legs - with 4 bars of fuel or more remaining. I can conclude from this that 55 or 60 can be tried on future runs. Wind drag climbs exponentially with speed, and I have kept from running out of fuel on a number of trips over the years by slowing to 40 (usually on country roads) where there is essentially no wind drag at all.

        I'd also like to acknowledge that my twin brother loaned me a 2008 GX for the trip. I figured the fuel use data would be more useful to others than taking my 2004 with the CVT transmission (and the low rolling resistance, worn tires.)
        .

        Comment


        • #5
          CNG and LNG trucks in regular use in OK and TX

          Driver, Tony, said he is driving the first CNG tractor of what is expanding to become Seaboard’s NGV fleet of about 60 Class 8 trucks - mainly Kenworth T800s with the Cummins Westport ISX12 G engine. Gary Ruettgers, Seaboard Transport's operations manager, reports that "Now, we have a gateway to the West for our CNG fleet." Photo taken in Thackerville OK at the Chickasaw CNG station.

          http://www.ngtnews.com/e107_plugins/...News+Headlines


          Basic Energy Services Peterbilt LNG Photo taken at CLEAN ENERGY CLNG station at 1075 Everman Pkwy, Fort Worth TX.

          http://basicenergyservices.com


          Western Dairy Transport (WDT), is headquartered in Cabool Missouri. This Class-8 Kenworth CNG sleeper truck uses the 12.1 liter Cummins Westport engine. This engine will handle 80,000 pounds under the right applications. The operating area needs to be primarily flat terrain, because the engine isn’t available with an engine brake. Photo taken at AMPCNG station in Waco TX, which is part of a network of stations the AMP-Trillium join venture has completed or is constructing in Waco, Amarillo, Harrold, Sweetwater, Weatherford, Kerrville and Midland. The Waco station employs Trillium CNG’s proprietary fast-fill hydraulic intensifier for faster CNG fueling. The station features three dispensers and allows for three Class 8 trucks to fuel simultaneously. Photo taken at AMPCNG station in Waco TX.

          http://www.wdtmilk.com

          http://ampcng.com/2013/10/08/national-dairy/

          http://bulktransporter.com/trends/na...uck-fleet-fuel

          http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...t-cng-in-waco/


          FIL-MOR was purchased by Dart Transit Company, Eagan MN....they operated as a separate division and sort of continue to. They are now called Dart Express and their trucks are also found in Toronto. Trailer graphics say “Eco Fleet More Freight Fewer Loads Less Impact The DART X AdVANtage.” Photo taken at San Antonio TX Flying J LCNG station on North Foster Rd.

          http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/i...?topic=71399.0


          Reynolds Nationwide 6,500-gallon Polar tank trailer and Peterbilt tractor (blue with sleeper) hauling milk arrive at Bryan TX CNG4America fuel station located at a Flying J. Reynolds was buying 40,000 gallons of diesel daily in 2008 according to the article. Company hauls milk, chocolate, tequila, and a variety of other liquid foodgrade products. Photo taken at Biggas Truck Stop 2890 N Harvey Mitchell Pkwy Bryan, TX CNG4America fuel island.

          http://bulktransporter.com/tank-flee...dgrade-service


          Central Freight Lines was able to take advantage of a Texas Emissions Reduction Plan (TERP) program that gives participants the opportunity to trade a less-efficient truck towards a cost reduction on each new CNG-fueled truck purchased - in this case, a Freightliner M2 112. Central Freight Lines is partnering to build new CNG stations in Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio as a result of the decision to convert the fleet to CNG technology. Central Freight Lines, headquartered in Waco Texas, has a network consisting of 51 terminals throughout the Southwest and is a less-than-truckload (LTL) general commodities carrier. Photo taken at AMPCNG station in Waco TX.

          http://cleanlogisticsconsulting.com/...ucks-to-fleet/

          CNG_Coremark_WacoTX.JPG
          Core-Mark is North America’s second-largest wholesale supplier of products to convenience stores. Shown is a newer version of the CNG Freightliner. Photo taken at AMPCNG station in Waco TX.

          http://www.core-mark.com

          http://www.gladstein.org/gna-casestudies/core-mark/
          Attached Files
          .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

            Based on this I'd say that those with newer versions of the Civic (2012) will be fine at 65-70mph with AC on. None of these fills approached 6 GGE's except for the one you noted you were lost. In my 2012 I once had a 7 GGE fill.

            On the other hand it is a bit uncomfortable to need to make on the fly calculations based on changing road conditions or unexpected weak fills/down stations. Obviously the route could use another station between albuquerque and amarillo, but it's still feasible to do it at regular speed and more than safe at slower speeds.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

              Trucks drove 75 mph along with the cars along Interstate 40. Once I left California, I didn't see any signs limiting trucks to 55 mph (and the roads weren't falling apart.) I could fuel about every 100 miles in OK and TX and drove 75 mph with the A/C on. I'm not sure if anywhere else in the country has roads as good as Texas:

              http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...a-c7-corvette/
              .

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                A planned Coast-to-Coast route based on 2014 California to Oklahoma Interstate 40 road trip:

                Still waiting on an AMP/Trillium CNG station to open at 338 Highway 594 Monroe, LA which, according to cngprices.com comments, Trillium now says is forecasted to open October 1st, 2014. This will keep the Eastern leg of the cross-country route higher up on I-20 instead of dropping down to I-10 where a somewhat lengthy leg connects Thomasville GA to Pensacola FL. But, for now, the planned route totals 2800 miles; 41 hours driving time; 20 fuel stops; and consumes (37 mpg) 75gge CNG - less than $200.

                (miles)
                000 440 S Main Blythe, CA
                162 2137 West Williams Drive Phoenix, AZ
                184 400 Transcon Lane Winslow, AZ
                265 1140 University Blvd NE Albuquerque, NM (closer to I-40 than airport station)
                292 2438 South Pullman Road Amarillo, TX
                140 Bk H Elk City, OK (close to: 102 Regional Dr Elk City OK)
                167 1601 West Airline Road Pauls Valley, OK
                148 3526 Security Street Garland, TX (Dallas)
                127 131 Pittman Street Longview, TX
                088 796 Washington Ave. Mansfield, LA
                092 6016 Old Boyce Hwy Alexandria, LA
                097 515 E. Verot School Rd. Lafayette, LA
                130 1017 Airline Dr Kenner, LA (new Orleans)
                209 3320 Copter Road Pensacola, Fl
                217 1334 W Jackson St, Thomasville, GA
                046 1628 James P Rodgers Drive Valdosta, GA
                141 2805 Southeast 32nd Avenue Ocala, FL
                081 2920 Silver Star Road Orlando, FL
                091 4750 West South Avenue Tampa, FL
                or to Miami from Orlando:
                227 19499 NW 2nd Ave Miami Gardens, FL

                Test trip from Blythe CA to Pauls Valley OK 19-29 Aug 2014 used a 2008 Honda Civic GX with two people plus 200 lbs of luggage. Segments over 250 miles were driven with A/C off at 50 mph with tires inflated to 40 psi resulting in 4 bars remaining on the fuel gage when the CNG station was reached. It is recommended to use the same technique, but hold 55 or 60 mph on subsequent trips. The tachometer was kept below 2500 when climbing up grades, and down grades were done in neutral with engine on. Because much of the route is posted 75mph, it is very important to match traffic speed when groups of vehicles are trying to pass, and to turn on flashers at night to warn vehicles as they approach from behind.

                The trip legs through Phoenix, Winslow, and Albuquerque are subject to snow chain restrictions following storms from November to March. Some LCNG dispensers ask for a vehicle number to complete the transaction. Just enter "05" and ignore a big green button that says, “Press before swiping card.” This is to adjust the price for PUC fuel sales and seems to confuse the card reader if a VISA/MC is used. This is the purest methane you will ever put in your car!
                Attached Files
                .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                  Coasting downhill in neutral on with a car built in the last 15 years or so will use more fuel than in drive, as well as being unsafe. Coasting out of gear is also illegal everywhere I know of.

                  Modern fuel injection does a 100% fuel cutoff with an automatic transmission on downhill coast, throttle off, using the air pumping thru the engine for compression braking , but it does put some stress on the transmission. The rpm on a cvt goes really high coasting downhill in drive.

                  Not sure, but I think manual trans cars also do a fuel cut-off when coasting in gear . Maybe some of the gear heads can chime in on this.
                  Last edited by Lakewood90712; 09-02-2014, 10:50 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                    The two Clean Energy CNG stations in Albuquerque - Sunport (Airport) and University - are "vintage" single dispensers which a big rig would find difficult to reach. The Albuquerque ANGH station will offer the big trucks and the public CNG (As I drove west leaving town, I saw the characteristic LNG tank "tower"):

                    http://www.fleetsandfuels.com/fuels/...-ng-advantage/


                    . . . The “America’s Natural Gas Highway (ANGH)” LNG stations in Albuquerque and in Winslow, Ariz. will provide CNG (via LCNG equipment for which all ANGH stations are designed) for 58 additional trucks being deployed by Seaboard Transport . . .

                    Maybe the ANGH station already is providing CNG, but I didn't check while I was there. The takeaway from this is that by visiting these ANGH stations, it can be verified that they are built (Amarillo had the excavating finished with a gas valving tree sticking out of the ground), loaded with fuel (Gretna and North Platte remain ready, but empty according to an Aug cngchat post), and equipped with the 4 ASME tubes and an expansion tube unit (Winslow, Ft Worth, San Antonio) to offer CNG from the LNG.

                    It may also be confirmed that the ANGH will not be offering CNG - which I found to be true for Waco TX by visiting it - usually because CNG isn't needed due to other nearby CNG stations. Plus, I think the CNG would cost more to acquire by the station by making it from LNG than to compress utility gas supplied from a pipe.
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                      This coast-to-coast planned route stays with Interstate 40 Eastbound through Memphis and then heads south to join Interstate 20 through Birmingham and Atlanta before heading for Florida. There are fewer long stretches East of Elk City. This route totals 2600 miles; 37 hours driving time; 18 fuel stops; and consumes (37 mpg) 70gge CNG - less than $175.

                      miles/phone/company/address
                      000 760.922.6611 City of Blythe 440 S Main St Blythe, CA
                      162 800.950.3835 Waste Management 2137 West Williams Dr Phoenix, AZ
                      184 928.289.2081 Flying J 400 Transcon Lane Winslow, AZ
                      265 505.277.3650 U of NM 1140 University Blvd NE Albuquerque, NM
                      292 312.300.6700 AMP/Trillium 2438 South Pullman Rd Amarillo, TX
                      140 888.609.2410 Hutchinson Oil Bk H Elk City, OK (close to: 102 Regional Dr)
                      118 405.672.3420 On Cue Express 5500 SE 29th St Del City, OK
                      065 918.623.2024 Loves Travel Stop 102 W Coplin St Okemah, OK
                      116 405.935.8252 OnCue Express 4419 Main St Arkoma, OK
                      165 501.951.2973 CNG Station 320 Curtis Sykes Dr North Little Rock, AR
                      139 901.320.1062 MLGW Choctaw Station 1130 Tupelo St Memphis, TN
                      115 662.282.4261 NE MS Natural Gas District 689 Hodges Dr Mantachie, MS
                      143 205.655.5119 Happy Hollow Chevron 5347 Deerfoot Parkway Trussville, AL
                      157 404.675.1950 Premier Transportation CNG 323 Cash Memorial Blvd Forest Park, GA
                      093 800.920.1166 AMP 523 Perry Parkway Perry, GA
                      128 229.242.2200 Langdale Fuel 1628 James P Rodgers Dr Valdosta, GA
                      213 800.920.1166 AMP 2920 Silver Star Rd Orlando, FL
                      091 800.920.1166 Trillium CNG 4614 South 50th St Tampa, FL
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                        I am going back from CA to MI bi Interstate 40 Eastbound, I am pulling a 34’ travel trailer and the stations I was thinking about are below. I would appreciate any good advice as to a better place to stop thanks in advance.
                        ($2.14 per gge) Sunline Transit
                        83255 Highway 111, Indio, CA 92201 (GPS: 33.71290, -116.23350) 52 miles
                        ($2.75 per gge) City of Blythe
                        440 S Main, Blythe, CA 92225 (GPS: 33.60326, -114.59746) 97 miles
                        ($2.35 per gge) Washington Unified School District (602-347-4809)
                        12641 N 39th Avenue Phoenix, AZ 85029 (GPS: 33.60112, -112.14238) 158 miles
                        ($2.29 per gge) Clean Energy, Winslow AZ LCNG
                        400 Transcon Lane, Winslow, AZ 86047 (GPS: 35.01542, -110.67470) 192 miles
                        Disconnect the trailer at Walmart Supercenter 2701 Carlisle Blvd NE, Albuquerque, NM 87110 505-884-6650
                        ($2.29 per gge) Clean Energy - Albuquerque Airport (directions in comments) (505-975-4064) 268 miles
                        2200 Sunport Blvd. SE, Albuquerque, NM 87106-3247 (GPS: 35.05272, -106.61535)
                        ($2.30 per gge) AMP Trillium (312-300-6700)
                        2438 South Pullman Road, Amarillo, TX 79118 (GPS: 35.18789, -101.70727) 301 miles
                        ($1.79 per gge) Hutchinson Oil, LLC (888-609-2410)
                        20207 E 1110 County Rd, Elk City, OK 73648 (GPS: 35.40570, -99.40507) 146 miles
                        ($1.69 per Gallon) Conoco Reno-Mart
                        3701 West Reno Ave., Oklahoma City, OK 73125 (GPS: 35.46472, -97.58369) 104 miles
                        ($1.87 per gge) Apache CNG
                        5011 S. Vandalia Ave, Tulsa, OK 74135 (GPS: 36.09165, -95.92257)
                        101 S Main St ,Owasso, OK 74055 918-641-2583
                        CNGNGO 4333 W 530 Rd, Pryor Creek, OK 74361 918-581-4311
                        ($1.88 per gge) City of Springfield MO (417-864-1458)
                        1111 W. Chestnut Expressway, Springfield, MO 65802 (GPS: 37.21541, -93.30599)
                        ? ($1.99 per gge) Spire CNG (314-499-5682 (M-F 8-5))
                        4231 Cypress Road, Saint Ann, MO 63074 (GPS: 38.73923, -90.38748)
                        ($2.55 per gge) Ozinga Energy (708 - 446 5542)
                        400 Blaine Street, Gary, IN 46406 (GPS: 41.60552, -87.42939)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                          Originally posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
                          Coasting downhill in neutral on with a car built in the last 15 years or so will use more fuel than in drive, as well as being unsafe. Coasting out of gear is also illegal everywhere I know of.

                          Modern fuel injection does a 100% fuel cutoff with an automatic transmission on downhill coast, throttle off, using the air pumping thru the engine for compression braking , but it does put some stress on the transmission. The rpm on a cvt goes really high coasting downhill in drive.

                          Not sure, but I think manual trans cars also do a fuel cut-off when coasting in gear . Maybe some of the gear heads can chime in on this.
                          Yes manuals also have DFCO (Decel Fuel Cutoff). All vehicles I know of use engine load, demand, RPM, gear, and speed to determine when to put the car into DFCO.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                            Regarding the CA to MI trip, you noted that the Springfield MO station only has weekday hours. It was used by the Coast-to-Coast trip in 2012 but, several years earlier, it had difficulties. WITHOUT THIS STATION, the distance between the last and next stations would be 360 miles. Not sure what you're driving (may even be bi-fuel), but your trip planning came up with the shortest route (955 miles from Elk City to MI) and the info is well organized. I would suggest OnCue for the cheapest price in Oklahoma City - they're great stations (3901 NW Expressway.) Blue Energy (101 S Main) in Owasso OK is also a good alternate.

                            An alternate route (450 miles longer) to use East of Elk City would be:

                            118mi 405.672.3420 On Cue Express 5500 SE 29th St Del City, OK
                            065mi 918.623.2024 Loves Travel Stop 102 W Coplin St Okemah, OK
                            116mi 405.935.8252 OnCue Express 4419 Main St Arkoma, OK
                            165mi 501.951.2973 CNG Station 320 Curtis Sykes Dr North Little Rock, AR
                            139mi 901.320.1062 MLGW Choctaw Station 1130 Tupelo St Memphis, TN
                            (one of the following)
                            208mi 800.920.1166 Trillium CNG - First St. - Nashville, TN 402 North 1st St Nashville, TN
                            208mi 800.950.3835 Clean N' Green / Waste Management 1428 Antioch Pike Nashville, TN
                            (one of the following)
                            167mi 800.950.3835 Clean N Green 7501 Grade Lane Louisville, KY (not working well, can try Fair Oaks Dairy)
                            167mi 312.300.6700 Clean Energy - Fair Oaks Dairy 7507 Highway 31 E Sellersburg, IN

                            126mi 260.229.2323 CNG FUEL INC. 510 South Post Rd Indianapolis, IN
                            203mi 260.229.2323 CNG FUEL INC. Findlay 5343 Distribution Dr. Findlay, OH
                            085mi 734.677.7129 Meijer 3825 Carpenter Rd Ypsilanti, MI
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Crossing the Southwest on Interstate 40 with public CNG fueling

                              Thank you for the reply; I did look at On Cue in Oklahoma City. When I went to http://www.altfuelprices.com/station_map.php I found quote “Vehicle Accessibility: Accommodates light-duty vehicles only (i.e., passenger vehicles, light-duty pickups, and utility vans).” And I am pulling a 34’ travel trailer. Yes my truck is bi-fuel and I can get about 200 miles on flat land between tanks of CNG. The station at 101 S Main St, Owasso, OK. Is a good station and was my second choice although cheaper at $1.75 per gge. It was father off my route and for 20gge would only save me $2.40 but is my second choice.

                              Comment

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