Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

    I just had my initial hearing yesterday, Feb 26th, before Judge Chapman. I should have looked at this thread earlier, but perhaps my information will be useful to others.

    I believe the ruling should come within 30 days. The Assistant Attorney General who argued for the Auditing Division indicated there are at least 20 other cases pending. (That number seems a little small, or I am just lucky to be one of the few I guess.)

    The main point I made in my hearing was this: The Tax Commission directs the taxpayer to the DAQ website for an explanation regarding the CFV Tax Credit. The DAQ website explicitly describes the tax credit in our favor, that is, that it is based on the cost of the CNG option when the vehicle was new, and is not limited by the price paid for a used vehicle. The auditing division of the Tax Commission contends that they are not bound by the DAQ because they are a 3rd party division with no authority to administer or interpret tax law. The judge seemed persuaded by my argument that the Tax Commission negated that claim when they linked to the DAQ website for an explanation of the tax credit. Also, that as far as the tax payer is concerned, all web pages on the utah.gov domain represent the state and it is an undue burden on the taxpayer to know which divisions within the state do or do not have authority to speak for other divisions. Especially when they link to each other.

    I have a 4-page document of my remarks which some may find useful. I'll attach it here.

    Robert Madsen
    801-226-6355
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

      Thanks for sharing Robert!

      You made some compelling arguments. I hope that you are successful!

      Luke

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

        Dear Robert thank you for your attached file. very well done. Just a few points for others. The Tax credit for the purchase of a vehicle (new or used) is still 50% of the cost of conversion if you have a vehicle converted by someone not and OEM installation.
        To this day the 50% cost conversion credit still stands for any State, City, or business concern that pays to have a conversion done to their vehicle.If the credit is limited to one claim per vehicle, it seems that the legislature felt it was reasonable for a legitimate Original Equipment Manufacture installed system to have the same credit as a backyard mechanic installed system that may not operate as efficiently or as long. It is also of note that a system installed originally on a new vehicle has a much longer life and therefore does much more to clean up the air then if I had it installed on a 1197 Ford pickup which has already polluted the air with over 90% higher pollution, for over 10 years at that time. Why is it unreasonable to assume that they intended for the credit to be a set amount based on 50% of cost, which it still is today unless it was OEM, as long as only one person received it.
        A further note is that in the tax form TC-40V they obviously gave preference to the OEM vehicle as shown by the offered $500 extra credit. ($3,000 instead of 2,500 for converted by other then OEM).
        I have more but will run out of time and lose the post so .....

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

          Well, its been almost a year since this thread was started, and for all of us, its been a year of frustration and immense irritation, among other things. It sounds like things are finally coming to a head. I'm hopeful that the end results will be positive toward all of us going through this bureaucratic nightmare.

          Robert, thank you for posting your arguments, and informing us of your experience in front of the commission. Please keep us updated.

          Has anyone else already had their hearing? My own hearing is coming up in a couple of weeks.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

            I received the court's decision yesterday. The judge ruled in my favor. (Appeal 13-1219) I'll attach a pdf of the most salient part of the decision. In summary, since the Tax Commission directed the taxpayer (and still does) to the DAQ website for an explanation on the tax credit and how it works, they cannot now say that the DAQ has no authority to explain tax law and the tax commission is not bound by that. The tax commission had offered no other explanation on how the tax credit worked and essentially endorsed that provided by the DAQ.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by robm; 03-27-2014, 05:02 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

              Great news robm! Thanks for sharing.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                Hi. My April 7th court date was rescheduled for Oct 15th. If I win I need to amend my 2010 for the additional credit from 2008 that was not used in 2009. The deadline for amending a 2010 return is April 15th 2014. I spoke to Mr Lund and he suggested in light of the decision I should go ahead and amend the 2010 return as if I won and then fix it if the Audit Division decides to appeal and I lose in October. He also said the continuance was requested by the Audit Division and if the decide to accept the decision that every one else with a similar case would have their arbitration canceled and the case decided in favor of the taxpayer.
                So beware if you think the decision is final. The Audit division still can appeal and has not decided yet.
                I contacted Get Gepphardt. They said the person that was originally in their report had not had their arbitration hearing yet. They said they may follow up with a report after that occurs but have no plans to do anything unless we provide proof of a blanket decision by the tax commission. I believe they have a time frame to make an appeal and I will let you know if I hear anything.
                If anyone else hears of their decision please post it.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                  Yahoo. Finally. I got word today that the Utah State Tax Commission appeals department has decided to NOT appeal the arbitration decision in the taxpayers favor.
                  That means I can sign the papers agreeing to forfeit all further action options on the case.
                  That means I cannot go to district court and sue for additional damages such as the hundreds of hours of research, agonizing sleepless nights, and abject depression brought on by the absolute disregard for the law. I have no idea if it is even possible to sue for or win a case like that. Many of you on here as well as I certainly deserve to be compensated for their utter disregard for the law.
                  If anyone has any knowledge as to the likely hood of successfully pursuing that type of litigation please post.
                  To repeat I received a proposal to set dismiss the case if I sign papers to agree to no further litigation.
                  That is really good news, unless someone knows why I should not accept the agreement.
                  Good Luck

                  Comment


                  • #54

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                      It has been six weeks since ROBM ruling in his favor. Last I talked with the Judge, Utah State Tax Division agreed to send out notifications to all involved regarding the ruling! Either Tax Division folks are taking their time or they are continuing on a case by case appeals!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                        Appears that some are getting a Stipulation and Order of Dismissal from the Auditing Division. No cover letter or rationale is provided. It appears that in many cases the Auditing Division is amending the audit results back to what the taxpayer originally submitted on the tax return (i.e. the Auditing Division appears to be vacating their request for additional monies).

                        In these cases, it appears the taxpayer has won.

                        I'm aware of several that were bullied into paying/settling with the Tax Commission or had decisions in the Auditing Divisions favor. Is the Tax Commission re-opening their audits and making adjustments, or are these people out of luck? Thinking about some of those whose cases were used to set precedent against the rest of us.

                        Hoping there is fairness for all.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                          In my case they decided to dismiss with no money due. Since I paid the assessment last year that virtually means nothing. There is an offer of a phone conference but I am filing my form TC-738 to maintain my appeal rights. I will not give up my rights for arbitration if they do not clearly state that they are allowing me the full amount of my tax credit with no further audits dealing with it as a carry the amount forward for the full 5 years as allowed by the original TC-40V. The vague wording in the dismissal letter leads me to believe that they intend to leave it open so they can audit the credit again if I amend and carry the credit forward. I tired to get a call back from the state attorney and it has been two weeks. I callled and requested a conference to claiify the issue and they have not set one yet. My appeal date is June 5th so I am out of other options. Would like to hear what has happened to the rest of you. I originally requested a continuance which was granted since the tax commission also requested it.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                            How the appeal go on june 5th?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                              I called and was told that they were indeed closing the case and that the legal wording was misleading. I went ahead and signed the document and sent it in with a request that they calculate my refund and the credit still available to move forward. I received a copy back signed by them and a Email identifying the rest of the credit that I can amend my 2012 or 2013 return to get back. I still have not received my money but it sounds like I won. Since I did then based on my conversation last year with the deputy commissioner, they should be notifying everyone else. However since they just dismissed my case I guess I did not technically win so maybe this is their way of not paying back all the others. I have always suspected that it just bothered someone that Utah paid for CNG cars for some people who took advantage of the law. In the appeal document that ROBM posted where it said that it was never their intention and that is what all this maneuvering by the state attorney generals office was expected to correct. I am glad that cooler heads prevailed. If anyone had a case like mine where they had received a properly signed TC-40V back from the Division of Air Quality and had followed the 50% of new rule then they should get their money back as well. If you post here or send me a note I would be glad to help anyone who needs assistance.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Getting Harassed by the Utah Tax Man?

                                Well think it is finally over. I received my refund check in the mail today. Terrible thing Utah State Tax Commission did. They basically tried to retroactively change the law because they felt some taxpayers were getting an unintended benefit. I agree that change should have been made and that it most likely was unintended but the tax credit still remains at 50% unless the percentage of vehicle purchase price is lower. If you have an old vehicle and pay to have it converted the price of the vehicle is not even an issue. It is like the drastic increase in the cost of CNG at the pump. When i bought my car in 2008 it was .52 per gallon. People who driving big polluting gas hogs were mad we did not have to pay road taxes. Still do not if you have a home pump but they keep increasing the cost to conservative CNG vehicle owners while at the same time saying they want to increase CNG use. Then I drive on the Highway and see the big digital billboard. Carpool for Cleaner Air. They have to put 10 people in a gasoline vehicle to reduce emissions per person to the same as 10 people driving their own CNG vehicle.
                                Ona different note if anyone is still having problems with the state on this issue, or if you already paid and need help getting your refund contact me.
                                Also if anyone has information on the new economical hydraulic CNG pump for home installation please share.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X