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Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

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  • Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

    Hi all just wanted to inform you. I moved to Vegas to retire and found that Clean energy has a monopoly here no other companies here so THEY CONTROL THE MARKET (I thought that was illegal) about 8 months ago I read that they over drilled for natural gas and natural gas was suppose to come down? BUT NOT CLEAN ENERGY (dirty business). When I moved in OCT 2012 the price here was $2.49/gge approx Feb 15 2013 it jumped to $2.59 I didn't like it but was acceptable BUT 2 weeks after that $2.79 30 CENTS IN 3 WEEKS!!!!!! I have money in savings and did some research and found a fed tax credit of $1,000 if I buy a phill unit and fuel from my garage at least I own something and not LINING CLEAN ENERGY WITH MY MONEY I WORKED FOR!! So beware CLEAN ENERGY has bought ALL the pilot stations and Flyers stations in the west mid west so they can corner the market and PRICE GOUGE!

  • #2
    Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

    If I found myself in your position, I would certainly take a pencil to paper to see if home refueling would work. Do you put enough miles on your car to pay for the compressor and the install within a reasonable time? Do your homework and let us know how it pencils out for you. Then, if you put one in, let me come refuel at your place at a reasonable cost when I'm passing through.

    On the one hand we all love to hate Clean Energy for the price gouging that they do, especially when they are the only game in town. On the other hand, we like that they build stations so we can at least get from here to there. I notice on cngprices.com that the Clean Energy prices in Las Vegas range from $2.60 to $2.80. Is that correct or are all the stations there at $2.80?
    _____________________________________
    '12 Blue Mist Metallic Civic Natural Gas; '03 Galapagos Green Civic GX; '07 Alabaster White Civic GX

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

      Originally posted by CNGLO View Post
      ... I notice on cngprices.com that the Clean Energy prices in Las Vegas range from $2.60 to $2.80. Is that correct or are all the stations there at $2.80?
      I can't say this about LV today for sure, but I've seen that CE stations in the same market in fact change prices at the same time; so I'd be surprised if all the LV stations are not $2.80 today (LV when I've been there filling up at two different stations on the same day, and certainly the PHX and Tucson AZ stations move at the same time, usually in 10 or 20 cent increments)
      2008 GX (extended range, trunkless version)
      Polished Metal Metallic 2012 Civic Natural Gas
      Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36 (since 2001)
      Previously owned: 2000 GX (11 years), 1995 Bi-fuel Sonoma, 2000 Bifuel Tahoe, 2000 Bi-fuel F150

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

        Well problem that JDELECT has is location (ie Las Vegas); he's in cross-hares of "You-Know-Who" target market . . . . .
        . . . . specifically . . . . an OLIGOPOLY . . . . where any possible competition has been eliminated and pricing is Whatever they want!!!
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligopoly

        Similar OLIGOPOLY situation exists in other locations in USA:
        . . . . . Denver, CO - - - - - - -$2.70 to $2.80/gge (mandated "Natural Fuels" access card - - no credit cards)
        . . . . . New York - - - - - - - -$2.73/gge for most of state (mandated "Natural Fuels" access card - - no credit cards)
        . . . . . Las Vegas, NV - - - - $2.79/gge
        . . . . . Phoenix, AZ - - - - - - $2.70/gge
        . . . . . Long Beach, CA - - - -$2.94 and $3.16/gge
        . . . . . Torrance, CA - - - - - $2.95/gge
        . . . . . LA, CA airport - - - - - $2.89/gge
        . . . . . Santa Monica, CA - - - $2.90/gge
        . . . . . Downtown LA, CA - - - $2.90/gge
        . . . . . Commerce, CA - - - - - $3.04/gge (few miles away at Pico Rivera, CA is SoCalGas cng at $1.98/gge)
        . . . . . Desert Hot Springs, CA -$3.10/gge (was $1.80 just 2 years ago)

        Compare to where "You-Know-Who" has competition (ie Oklahoma City, OK) where price by "YKW" at airport is $1.38/gge!! This is while nearby OKC public cng prices range from $0.79/gge to $1.29/gge.

        Now, DON'T FORGET to also ADD $0.50/gge to each of the above cng prices to get at REAL SELLING PRICE due to Federal excise tax credit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

          I don't know if this still holds true, traditionally in Navada natural gas has had the highest fuel tax levied against it. Propane on the other hand has the lowest.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

            Two Cents - On 12/11/2012 filled in LV on Industrial for $3. Couldn't get back to Utah fast enough. In the Denver area I went to Firestone for a fill. Lower price and CCs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

              Originally posted by jdelect View Post
              Hi all just wanted to inform you. I moved to Vegas to retire and found that Clean energy has a monopoly here no other companies here so THEY CONTROL THE MARKET (I thought that was illegal) about 8 months ago I read that they over drilled for natural gas and natural gas was suppose to come down? BUT NOT CLEAN ENERGY (dirty business). When I moved in OCT 2012 the price here was $2.49/gge approx Feb 15 2013 it jumped to $2.59 I didn't like it but was acceptable BUT 2 weeks after that $2.79 30 CENTS IN 3 WEEKS!!!!!! I have money in savings and did some research and found a fed tax credit of $1,000 if I buy a phill unit and fuel from my garage at least I own something and not LINING CLEAN ENERGY WITH MY MONEY I WORKED FOR!! So beware CLEAN ENERGY has bought ALL the pilot stations and Flyers stations in the west mid west so they can corner the market and PRICE GOUGE!
              Have you noticed that gasoline prices swung much faster than that. Phill is great conceptually, but if you do the math you'll probably notice that from a financial perspective you'll be far behind in cost, even at $3 a gallon. I'd be more interested in Phill from a convenience stand point. When Phill breaks down, you'll be lining the dealers pocket who has you cornered. Don't forget about the KWhr usage of the pump.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                Discussion of Phill economics vs. the more cost-effective Fuelmaker FMQ-2-36:
                http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthr...assed-on-Phill
                Last edited by John Mitton; 03-09-2013, 04:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                  Originally posted by Camfab View Post
                  Have you noticed that gasoline prices swung much faster than that. Phill is great conceptually, but if you do the math you'll probably notice that from a financial perspective you'll be far behind in cost, even at $3 a gallon. I'd be more interested in Phill from a convenience stand point. When Phill breaks down, you'll be lining the dealers pocket who has you cornered. Don't forget about the KWhr usage of the pump.
                  Gotta point out that . . . . . price swings in liquid petrol (ie gasoline/diesel) has NOTHING to do with compressed natural gas! The two fuels are TOTALLY UNRELATED as to their underlying cost ; only "You-Know-Who" tries to convince public that cng has any tie with petrol price!!

                  Commodity price of natural gas has been at record lows in past year (had been somewhere in $2.50 to $3/Mcf range and currently around $3.60/Mcf). Now comparatively crude oil has been $90 to $100/bbl. Further, the energy content of natural gas is roughly 7 times Mcf to equate to 1 bbl of crude - - - - thus $100 crude is roughly equivalent to $20 natural gas!! Thus, using "apples-to-apples" comparison, gge of cng would be 20% of petrol price, based on raw commodity cost!! See downward chart in NG commodity price at:
                  http://futures.tradingcharts.com/cha...che=1362870108
                  Notice natural gas commodity peak cost was in 2006 and mini-peak in 2008, then big drop every since.

                  A few tidbits of "You-Know-Who" pricing over this period (ie no correlation to actual underlying NG cost):
                  Los Angeles, CA was $1.75 in 2010 now $2.80
                  Desert Hot Springs, CA was $1.80 in 2010 now $3.10/gge
                  New York cng was $2.48 in 2008 and now $2.73/gge
                  Denver, CO was $1.99 in 2010 and now $2.70/gge

                  For cng vehicle owners who drive considerable miles, best solution is FMQ2-36 which is reliable and can maintain price of approx $1/gge for home VRA. This puts them in control of their own pricing, rather than OLIGOPOLY of You-Know-Who.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                    Originally posted by KSneedsCNG View Post
                    Gotta point out that . . . . . price swings in liquid petrol (ie gasoline/diesel) has NOTHING to do with compressed natural gas! The two fuels are TOTALLY UNRELATED as to their underlying cost ; only "You-Know-Who" tries to convince public that cng has any tie with petrol price!!

                    Commodity price of natural gas has been at record lows in past year (had been somewhere in $2.50 to $3/Mcf range and currently around $3.60/Mcf). Now comparatively crude oil has been $90 to $100/bbl. Further, the energy content of natural gas is roughly 7 times Mcf to equate to 1 bbl of crude - - - - thus $100 crude is roughly equivalent to $20 natural gas!! Thus, using "apples-to-apples" comparison, gge of cng would be 20% of petrol price, based on raw commodity cost!! See downward chart in NG commodity price at:
                    http://futures.tradingcharts.com/cha...che=1362870108
                    Notice natural gas commodity peak cost was in 2006 and mini-peak in 2008, then big drop every since.

                    A few tidbits of "You-Know-Who" pricing over this period (ie no correlation to actual underlying NG cost):
                    Los Angeles, CA was $1.75 in 2010 now $2.80
                    Desert Hot Springs, CA was $1.80 in 2010 now $3.10/gge
                    New York cng was $2.48 in 2008 and now $2.73/gge
                    Denver, CO was $1.99 in 2010 and now $2.70/gge

                    For cng vehicle owners who drive considerable miles, best solution is FMQ2-36 which is reliable and can maintain price of approx $1/gge for home VRA. This puts them in control of their own pricing, rather than OLIGOPOLY of You-Know-Who.
                    Not disagreeing with your numbers or thoughts one bit, however I'm just pointing out the obvious. Gasoline prices here in SoCal swing $.30 in a few weeks with the craziest excuses I've heard in years. Essentially the oil companies have broken us, gas could go up a dollar tomorrow and there is nothing you or I can do. Clean energy is just following suit. No chance of pumping $1/GGE in my neck of the woods with a home unit. Gas cost alone is more than that, plus electricity rates in my area are sky high. A Plug-In car in my area has an effective rate of $4.50 per equivalent gallon of gas.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                      Yep, I agree that California appears most subjected to Monopoly and Oligopoly price gouging. When Enron was artficially pulling strings on energy market prices, the target "gold pot" to gouge also appeared to be California.

                      However, comment that "there is nothing you or I can do" is only true in the short-term. Many cng owners are minimizing their exposure to these price gouging tactics. If NG and electric rates are higher in CA (which they are), then maybe gge price is $1.50 or $2/gge with home VRA of Fuelmaker FMQ2-36 (still significantly lower than public cng in CA). Purchase a Civic NG and home VRA and only use public cng sites when necessary. Great thing about CNG in California is that infrastructure is nearly statewide so cng travel is always possible, as a backup if home VRA is temporarily down.

                      Momentum is turning towards economies of scale for both NG vehicles and VRA's. These are pioneering times for those who fight the status quo.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                        Gotta point out that . . . . . price swings in liquid petrol (ie gasoline/diesel) has NOTHING to do with compressed natural gas! The two fuels are TOTALLY UNRELATED as to their underlying cost ; only "You-Know-Who" tries to convince public that cng has any tie with petrol price!!
                        It has nothing to do with Dallas landfill methane at all that Clean Energy pumps out of the Dallas land fill.
                        Why in ell would there be wide swings in prices at all.

                        In realty I think they are wide open to a law suit of some sort.
                        Last edited by Mingus108; 03-10-2013, 08:51 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                          Originally posted by KSneedsCNG View Post
                          Yep, I agree that California appears most subjected to Monopoly and Oligopoly price gouging. When Enron was artficially pulling strings on energy market prices, the target "gold pot" to gouge also appeared to be California.

                          However, comment that "there is nothing you or I can do" is only true in the short-term. Many cng owners are minimizing their exposure to these price gouging tactics. If NG and electric rates are higher in CA (which they are), then maybe gge price is $1.50 or $2/gge with home VRA of Fuelmaker FMQ2-36 (still significantly lower than public cng in CA). Purchase a Civic NG and home VRA and only use public cng sites when necessary. Great thing about CNG in California is that infrastructure is nearly statewide so cng travel is always possible, as a backup if home VRA is temporarily down.

                          Momentum is turning towards economies of scale for both NG vehicles and VRA's. These are pioneering times for those who fight the status quo.
                          For just about anywhere other than Utah and OK , the above highlighted in red is the way to go, not just California. Ya , a new Fuelmaker FMQ will run about $7500 + install. Private users , can always sell a good used FMQ for over $5,000 if you want to quit cng. Business owners can take tax credits for equipment to defray the cost. The more fuel you use, the better. With a vehicle that uses a lot more fuel and puts a lot of miles on each day, like a small business truck or van, it's a no brainer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Beware of the CLEAN ENERGY PRICE GOUGING IN Las Vegas

                            Originally posted by Camfab View Post
                            electricity rates in my area are sky high. A Plug-In car in my area has an effective rate of $4.50 per equivalent gallon of gas.
                            LOL, I don't know where your area is, but that's not true. Probably more like $.60. There is no way your utility is charging you 8 times what other utilities charge. And my local gas station isn't charging $24 a gallon. I know that sentence and this response are off-topic anyway, but I just couldn't let it slide. No offense.
                            Last edited by greenstreetgarage; 03-11-2013, 03:15 PM.

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