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  • Landfill Gas

    Why doesn't anyone produce and sell landfill gas for vehicle fuel? That would sure beat flaring it and would encourage the use of CNG by all of the trucks that frequent a landfill.

  • #2
    Re: Landfill Gas

    It IS being extracted and used at several landfills. Some burn it as fuel for boilers for steamplant electric generation, some others are converted to cng or lng for use in trash trucks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landfill_Gas_Utilization

    Has to be a large enough supply and customer base to make it work on the money side.
    Last edited by Lakewood90712; 01-21-2011, 12:38 PM. Reason: added link

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    • #3
      Re: Landfill Gas

      Forget LANDFILLS! The real potential is SEWAGE!

      I keep telling people about it, but nobody really seems to want to listen.
      Oh wait, maybe somebody has... http://myhappyeye.blogspot.com/2010/...treatment.html

      Seriously though, Don't you think we could start a private company that could approach municipalities offering to take over sewage production (Private is always better than Gov't right? Especially here in Utah!), then turn them into mini gas-production/power-production plants and turn a profit?
      Anybody want to go in with me to start a business?

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      • #4
        Re: Landfill Gas

        Originally posted by kirkbenge View Post
        Forget LANDFILLS! The real potential is SEWAGE!
        Both options are good. About sewage, I have considered to do it in my next house...

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        • #5
          Re: Landfill Gas

          All sorts of bio-fuels are starting to come to the front with some govt people. I was at a meeting a couple weeks ago and the speaker (state govt) acually got it! We don't have natural sources (NG, coal, oil, etc) here in WI and the state is looking at the cost of fuels imported and the monies leaving the state. It may be stemming from the change in Governor here.

          The realization that bio-fuels that are used for electric generation is a low return sale when transport fuel would increase the ROI. And that transport is where the majority of fuel is used. Why use it to replace ten cent kw/h fuel when it can replace $3+ fuel?

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          • #6
            Re: Landfill Gas

            I have run a 2002 Cavalier on both fuels. The landfill gas isn't as good a choice as sewer (or digester) gas. Lots of stuff not to like in landfill gas. The btu content is about 1/2 that of pipeline quality natural gas. There are also components in the gas that are not desirable in the engine. Engines designed to run on landfill gas are very slow turning to accomadate the slow flame travel of the gas. We have some 3516 Cats running on landfill gas and they turn 1200 rpm v.s. a natural gas engine that runs 1800 rpm for this reason. The Cavalier did run with reduced power on landfill gas but because the natural gas calibration wouldn't accept such a low btu fuel, it didn't run very good. The same Cavalier on digester gas from a dairy farm ran the same as it does on natural gas. No problems at all and a much cleaner fuel.

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            • #7
              Re: Landfill Gas

              The issues with bio-methane are filtering, they may filter out the impurities. (siloxane, phospates, etc) Siloxane will turn to glass in an engine and destroy it and others will cause corrosion and/or emmissions issues. The low quality btu is because thay aren't separating out the CO2. The dairy farm digester likely has a separator for removal of the CO2. Hence the difference in performance as the gas is, or at least is much closer to gas line quality.

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              • #8
                Re: Landfill Gas

                Originally posted by siai47 View Post
                I have run a 2002 Cavalier on both fuels. The landfill gas isn't as good a choice as sewer (or digester) gas. Lots of stuff not to like in landfill gas. The btu content is about 1/2 that of pipeline quality natural gas. There are also components in the gas that are not desirable in the engine. Engines designed to run on landfill gas are very slow turning to accomadate the slow flame travel of the gas. We have some 3516 Cats running on landfill gas and they turn 1200 rpm v.s. a natural gas engine that runs 1800 rpm for this reason. The Cavalier did run with reduced power on landfill gas but because the natural gas calibration wouldn't accept such a low btu fuel, it didn't run very good. The same Cavalier on digester gas from a dairy farm ran the same as it does on natural gas. No problems at all and a much cleaner fuel.
                Are those cat 3516's on 100% gas or do they use diesel as pilot fuel ?

                Many of the Sewage Plants In So Cal use digester gas running in large ICE engines connected to air compressors or generators. I dont know if they mix digester gas with pipeline gas or use diesel as a pilot fuel. They look like large cat's. Havent seen a waukeshaw around here in a long time.
                Last edited by Lakewood90712; 01-21-2011, 08:00 PM. Reason: typo

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                • #9
                  Re: Landfill Gas

                  The 3516's are spark ignition 100%gas and do not use diesel as a pilot fuel. I used to run a Fairbanks-Morse OP on a Diesel cycle with 90% gas and 10% pilot fuel. That engine was pretty tempermental and needed to be at least at half load and 165 inlet air temp before changeover to Gas. The 3516's are rated at 800 KW each on landfill gas. Cat is fairly aggressive in this market. We are now running 3520's in some of our newer plants. When I said there are some undesirable things in landfill gas, siloxane was near the top of my list--really hard on valve seats, piston rings and cylinder walls. It is really hard to filter it out and in most of the plants we just figure in the wear as part of the plant maintenance. The units in the picture are about 10 years old and run 24/7/365 unless down for maintainence. There are two 3520's that have been added here but not in the picture
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10
                    Re: Landfill Gas

                    cleaning up and using landfill or digester gas for use in trash trucks or other municipal vehicles is practical, but cleaning it up enough for sale to the public is not.
                    02 GX
                    01 GX
                    03 Crown Vic
                    06 GX
                    Home Fueler

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                    • #11
                      Re: Landfill Gas

                      There is a project at an Orange County landfill:

                      http://www.prometheus-energy.com/whatwedo/bowerman.php

                      Bowerman Landfill, Orange County California.

                      With over 31 million tons of waste in place, the Frank R. Bowerman Landfill is one of the largest landfills in California making it an excellent candidate for Prometheus’ first-of-kind commercial landfill gas (LFG)-to-LNG project. The landfill is designed to flare all LFG emitted or approximately 7,600 standard cubic feet per minute (scfm) of LFG, the equivalent of over 60,000 gallons of LNG per day. In addition, the landfill’s location relative to a growing but established LNG markets make this an excellent project site. The operation will initially produce 5,000 gallons of LNG per day with plans to expand production to up to 40,000 gallons a day in 2008 and 2009.

                      The initial 5,000 gallon per day plant, which will process 850 standard cubic feet per minute of LFG, was installed in late 2006 and first produced LNG in January, 2007 at a rate of 1,000 gallons per day. The plant is now in the commissioning phase with a focus on increasing production to reach nameplate capacity of 5,000 gallons per day.

                      The environmental benefits of the Bowerman LFG-to-LNG project are significant. According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s Landfill Methane Outreach Program, a 40,000 gallon LFG-to-LNG project has environmental benefits equivalent to removing the emissions from over 125,000 vehicles or displacing over 72 million gallons of gasoline. As a displacement for diesel fuel, LNG provides additional air quality benefits.

                      The Bowerman Landfill LFG-to-LNG project is a joint venture between Prometheus and Montauk Energy Capital.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Landfill Gas

                        Caught an interesting tidbit watching Bones last night... the creature with the most farts is the termite- due to its diet, a natural methane factory

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                        • #13
                          58 page study comparing the use of gas for flaring, electric generation by diesel or micro turbine, CNG, or injecting it back into the pipeline was commissioned for a California waste water treatment plant. One conclusion was that converting the gas to pipeline quality was the highest cost alternative.Though also expensive, the micro turbine option was their recommendation.The plant was already producing electricity using an engine-driven generator which apparently did not meet California emission limits - necessitating the engineering analysis to decide how to rectify the problem.

                          Title of the report (should the below link expire) is Las Gallinas Valley Sanitation District Biogas Utilization Evaluation April 24 2014, produced by CH2MHill:

                          http://www.lgvsd.org/wp-content/uplo...14handout4.pdf
                          .

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                          • #14
                            Both of these biogas electric generating plants near Eugene Oregon are cutting edge and successful, technically. The food waste digester - JC-Biomethane is a picture of organization - with mounds of composted materials, a truck receiving area, and very high-tech apparatus proven by years of experience in Europe. The property tax thing would likely break any business.

                            http://www.eugeneweekly.com/20160616/news-features/taxpayer-subsidized-biogas-plant-underperforms-asks-massive-tax-break


                            The Seneca lumber mill power plant is lit up every night and is positioned near the lumber drying kilns to additionally use waste heat after electric power has been generated. It burns mill waste to make steam for generating electricity and plumes can be seen coming from the the four cooling units almost constantly.

                            Kathy Jones explains that it was never the plan for she and her sisters to inherit Seneca Mill.

                            As far as she is concerned, Douglas firs are a tree that was created for doing exactly what we do with them: making lumber. They re straight as a board; they ve only got branches in the top quarter of their height; they re a soft wood but a strong wood; and they grow like weeds. (by the way, a few clicks on the internet show that the marbled-murrelet birds the tree-huggers are worried about are way out of their Alberta Canada range where they are too numerous to count.)


                            http://www.oregonbusiness.com/articles/166-novemberdecember-2014/13884-revenge-forestry?start=1

                            .

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                            • #15
                              Disappearing ink. Link to the Oregon Business article about Seneca Mills now:

                              http://www.oregonbusiness.com/articl...venge-forestry


                              I guess since the editors of OREGON BUSINESS are not content to leave statements in stories such as:

                              Douglas firs are a tree that was created BY GOD for doing exactly what we do with them: making lumber.

                              They end up going back into their archives and changing what the writer originally said. If I were to make one change to the article after seeing the photo of the daughter in the big office with the trophies hanging on the walls, I would have used gorgeous instead of lanky 62 year old (and, of all things, to even mention a woman s age) to describe her. And, give me a break, the Marbled Murrelet must be at the top of its game if it can fly at 60 mph twelve miles inland through all that forest only to discover its food was back at the ocean beaches. And, for this, 28 timber sales were cancelled in 2014 leading to (what I was told) schools losing funding and the entire Sheriff s staff being laid off in Jackson County leaving property protection to organized groups of (armed) land owners (not to worry, Seneca Mill ended up buying the Federal forest - putting it into private ownership - which changed the endangered species protection requirement from preserving its habitat to one of go about your business but try not to hurt it):

                              http://www.oregonlive.com/environmen...orestry_2.html

                              So, the link changed to the Seneca Mill story, leading to ERROR 404 not found. For posterity, here is a screen shot of the new, revised version so that when it disappears altogether, it may still be enjoyed:

                              SenecaGirlsRevised.png
                              .

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