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  • trdscfjc
    started a topic Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    This is the first 10 pages of the "look what I found lurking" thread...I kept the highlights that I thought were relevant
    __________________________________________________ ________


    Think this may of been contributing to my slow fill times.

    20150224_193553.jpg20150301_235904.jpg
    20150301_235915.jpg

    This set to the right level, not sure if this would have anything to do with it (I'm running out of ideas)

    20150302_011940.jpg

    Back together again...

    20150302_015209.jpg

    Looks like I'm getting a slight bit of interference from the valve (likely due to the washer pushing the valve out ever so slightly, I do not see any marks on the piston itself or the valve so for now nothing is actually hitting

    20150302_021159.jpg

    _______________________

    Cleaned out the intercooler tube and it was actually pretty clean


    When I am not compressing any gas and I vent the discharge to atmosphere I'm getting 3.5-3.75 cfm (normal) but as soon as it starts compressing the flow comes to a crawl exponentially (higher the discharge pressure the slower it gets)
    All the valves have been replaced along with a new belt. This is a mystery.

    ______________________

    after another chat with steve i think we have it nailed down to blow by from the 2nd and 3rd stage with the 3rd stage being the likely candidate

    I also spoke with Mike Casey from Lawrence Factor, I sent him and Ray Contreras the video about the new 4th stage valve and piston assembly for the mch 30 (similar to the 3rd stage on the mch5) and am awaiting pricing and more info on a possible retrofit, the mch30 may be slightly longer and wont fit in the mch5, will update when i have more info on this

    i also spoke with Carl from L&M compressors who has experience with every major compressor on the market (Bauer,Coltri, Mako, GD etc...) and he also said that this sounds like a faulty ring issue.

    A few other things that i found interesting about the MCH5 is that there is a weak link in the second stage piston wrist pin. We are unsure if coltri has done what bauer has done and beefed it up by using a needle bearing in the wrist pin but its something worth looking into.

    Another thing that i wanted to share was that the newer compressors use a phenolic material for the piston rings as opposed to steel or chromoly. These being much more expensive (about 20$ each ring) but have very good wear properties and they do not conduct heat, this in turn seals better and minimize heat transfer to the gas. If i can run these rings i probably will and report back.

    ___________________________

    Originally posted by cngtennessee View Post
    I thought this was the redesign of the 3rd stage. I believe Nuvair is selling these kits for around 600 bucks.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ou6VMq-sDfk


    _________________________

    Well according to Carl from L&M I was due for a ring change anyway, in any case this issue happened after the oil change and I have been running this oil for a couple of years now. IIRC the last oil change was only 25 hours overdue and there was no evidence of any kind that something was a miss (coke/slow fills) at the time I did the oil/valve change.

    I believe that the recirculation of the hot gas over and over caused the coking, would another oil have prevented it I don't know. I have been running my machine pretty hard since December when I got my new truck a big contributing factor is the extended running times, in some cases 12+ hours of continuous use a day.

    What I think would be a good idea is some sort of a flow regulator on the tube that leads from the crankcase to the intake that would give you a idea on how much blow by you are getting so you can see a decline in efficiency and fix it before it causes a major failure.

    I'm approaching 3000 hours. still very much satisfied with this machine, it has paid for itself many times over though I think with a few tweaks it could be better.

    ______________________

    new_kit_head_3rd_stage_mch_811131618.pdffound this E-Flyer
    http://www.coltrisub.it/MAIN/IMGS/NE..._811131618.pdf

    ______________________

    Here is the part number of the Lawrence Factor ring set I am using in my MCH5 compressor. NP-2211-0376A Link to site: http://www.lawrence-factor.com/Compr...=NP-2211-0376A

    ________________________

    Originally posted by alpacafarmer View Post
    How much where the rings?
    1st stage
    NP-2211-0389A
    Piston ring set. (60mm)
    $45.05


    2nd stage
    NP-2211-0371A
    Piston ring set. (36mm)
    $47.40




    3rd stage cost is 48$ hopefully they ship out tomorrow morning

    thanks Dave
    __________________________

    Originally posted by karl View Post
    This would be a great chance to put a flow meter on your crankcase and get a baseline on blowby with worn rings. Then rering one cylinder at a time , taking blowby readings before reringing the next cylinder. I am curous if one cylinder is contributing more to the blowby than the other cylinders.

    Let us know how it goes reringing yout third cylinder. I pussed out and bought the entire assembly as I was predicting I would break those tiny rings while installing.

    I am also looking for more clarity on the need (or lack thereof) for breaking the glaze on cylinders 1 and 2 to get the rings to seat properly. My local machinist with 40 years in the trade recommended I run a dingleball hone throught the cylinder to improve ring seating.

    It is tough to find a dingleball small enough for cylinder 2. I found one at the motorcycle shop for 50 cc cylinders.
    I assume these rings are cast iron? Does anyone know?
    The only rings I that I thought would seat without glaze breaking are chromemoly rings in racing 2 strokes but the recommended replacement on those is less than 50 hours.

    Good luck with it.
    Karl
    _____________________

    20150315_061345.jpg

    Back a few pages I mentioned that Carl from L&M compressors told me that the weak link on the mch5 was the 2nd stage wrist pin....he wasn't kidding

    Going to take another day or 2 to get to the local bearing shop for a replacement needle bearing and wrist pin, then I can replace the rings

    _____________________

    20150315_221507.jpg20150315_221205.jpg

    More pictures of the carnage, need some help identifying the brand name of this piston I assume it's a European manufacturer

    ________________

    Originally posted by cngtennessee View Post
    This is exactly what happened to me when I experienced my 3rd stage valve failure. The following pics are what was discovered when I took the crankcase down. I agree with Karl, remove the compressor and take er down. At the very least the metal shavings from your wrist pin need to be removed from the bottom of crankcase. If the wrist pin is that badly worn, you will more than likely have a worn 2nd stage sleeve on your crankshaft.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]4822[/ATTACH]

  • BritCNGUser
    replied
    Agreed: Has to be said, the sight-level takes an age to level-out. I find mine is over 2.0 Litres to get to the Max level. Like trdscjjc I run Royal Purple NGL150 in mine.

    Leave a comment:


  • trdscfjc
    replied
    Its always good to mark how much oil you take out, that way you know how much to put in...also it takes time for the sight glass to show a indication level this is exacerbated in cold weather as it will take longer for the oil to show the correct level

    Leave a comment:


  • coltrisrb
    replied
    My name is Sasa. I live and work Novi Sad Serbia. We sell and service COLTRI compressor. I sold 15 of the compressor and so far everyone has worked over 10,000 sati.this problem I had was when the oil level was over maksimum.in compressor is poured 1.2 liters of oil

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
    I got mind through U.S. channels
    my mistake i was under the impression yours was one of those off ebay out of poland.

    Leave a comment:


  • trdscfjc
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    I got mind through U.S. channels

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
    Im using the u.s. model, im not sure what if any effect the newly redesigned head and piston has on efficiency or flow rate.

    As i dont know what my flow rate was when the machine was new with the original head im not sure if im running over spec due to the head or not. As my machine is a 60 hertz machine any overspec in flow could be attributed to the new head

    Also i am not sure what base inlet pressure the 5 m hr. 3, is based on...it could be based on 1/4 Psi inlet...if so that too could explain why my machine is running over spec while running at 60 hertz
    a simple hand held tach would answer a lot of questions. Wasn't aware U.S. model came thru a polish distributor?

    Leave a comment:


  • trdscfjc
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Im using the u.s. model, im not sure what if any effect the newly redesigned head and piston has on efficiency or flow rate.

    As i dont know what my flow rate was when the machine was new with the original head im not sure if im running over spec due to the head or not. As my machine is a 60 hertz machine any overspec in flow could be attributed to the new head

    Also i am not sure what base inlet pressure the 5 m hr. 3, is based on...it could be based on 1/4 Psi inlet...if so that too could explain why my machine is running over spec while running at 60 hertz
    Last edited by trdscfjc; 08-30-2015, 11:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    So if max hz is set for 50 and this is a european machine I assume max is 100% of line input which here is 60 hz and it would be running 20% overspeed here? Has anyone put a tach on one of these to see what it is actually running? TRD is getting 20% over what the machine is rated which is 3cfm, would seem to indicate a 20% overspeed , would be great if someone would actually put a tach on one and see.

    Leave a comment:


  • jthomson
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
    I think jthompson was looking into adjusting his speed drive, maybe send him a pm
    My mch-5 came with a 3 phase 50 hz motor and a V.F.D. I found the manual in English on line and figured out how to change the permaters such as the herz. I assumed that I was going to have to adjust the hz, but found that the max hz was already set to 50.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    I have a separate meter on my compressor, mine runs between 1.54 and 1.58 kwh per therm month after month, etc. Although i am running a three phase compressor motor on single phase thru a static phase convertor, not the most efficient setup in the world. When the motor wears out will replace it with a single phase but the compressor came with the three phase and i already had the phase convertor.
    Last edited by flatracker; 08-28-2015, 10:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Originally posted by karl View Post
    Flatracker,
    I haven't compared kwh to therms but I have noticed the blowby (measured with a dwyer flowmeter) is the same volume at half speed as it is at full speed so with some surprise I conclude it may actually be more efficient to run the compressor at full speed. If I get a chance to monitor volume pumped and Kwh consumed I will post back.

    Good question though.

    Karl
    there should be an increase in volumetric efficiency at the reduced speed but whether it is enough to offset the blowby only measurement will tell.

    Leave a comment:


  • trdscfjc
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    good to know karl

    Leave a comment:


  • karl
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    Flatracker,
    I haven't compared kwh to therms but I have noticed the blowby (measured with a dwyer flowmeter) is the same volume at half speed as it is at full speed so with some surprise I conclude it may actually be more efficient to run the compressor at full speed. If I get a chance to monitor volume pumped and Kwh consumed I will post back.

    Good question though.

    Karl

    Leave a comment:


  • flatracker
    replied
    Re: Coltri diagnostic, (summary to "lurking" thread)

    karl have you ever checked your kwh versus therms pumped at full speed versus slow speed be interesting to see if there is a efficiency gain from the reduced friction and heat at the slower speed.

    Leave a comment:

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