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look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

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  • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

    My question is when you have the head off and bring the pistons up to tdc and than lock the crank and push down on them are they flush with the top of the bore. or are they down from a bad bearing as flatracker thinks If I was fooling with trying to break in used parts. I would run some real cheap mineral oil not the synthetic that gos in them. and run it for several hours under load. I had a slant 6 dart when I was a kid and my dad gave me about 5 motors for parts and I built one out of them.the only parts I bought was a gasket set. it sure did smoke as I had just pumped amsoil out the drum in the corner of the shop. finely he had me drain the new oil out and put some real crappy drain oil with a pint I think of gasoline added. it took a few hundred miles to quit smoking and than put the amsoil back in. it ran for several years of us kids trying to kill it. now I dont think I would want to put drain oil in a high dollar compressor but some cheap non synthetic might be worth a try

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    • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

      New parts arrived, got a 1st stage wrist pin and 2 sets of rings

      20150324_214234.jpg

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      • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

        Cowboy,
        thanks for sharing that story about your slant 6.
        Cheap mineral oil might be the way to go. I'll see what my local machinist who honed the cylinder suggests.

        In regards to flattracker suggestin bottom end bearing inspection, my coltri main bearings were fine but the lower rod bearings were trashed on the first two stages.

        Be forewarned, it seems to take at least four hands to thread the rods onto the crank as you slide it back into the case. I will be impressed if someone manages to juggle all the parts singlehandedly.

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        • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

          Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
          New parts arrived, got a 1st stage wrist pin and 2 sets of rings

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]4848[/ATTACH]
          Pure perverted filth. You dirty thing, we are disgusted.

          I am afraid I have copped-out of this one. Having got to the point where I believe my own BS and now seem to be looking only where the sun don't shine I have a compressor tech coming to see mine on Friday. I have thrown too much time and money at this thinking I was being clever and this guy charges far less than I have been spending on parts for 1-2 hours of his time. I don't think I have issues with my lower-end it seems tight, my Coltri pressure maintaining / back pressure / priority Valve arrived today. Will post pics fitted and let you all know the techs verdict.
          Last edited by BritCNGUser; 03-25-2015, 06:34 AM.

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          • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

            I know all this seems horribly frustrating but sometimes knowledge comes easy and sometimes we slog it out in the trenches, this would be the slogging part

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            • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

              A three stae pump can't be that difficult to diagnose yet I struggle. I don't do DIY dentistry I pay a pro. I might need to do the same with this pump.

              Assuming the tech I have booked-in is half good i reckon I'll be better off. I'll let you all know.
              Last edited by BritCNGUser; 03-25-2015, 04:59 PM.

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              • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                What never pulled a loose tooth on your own???

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                • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                  I hope things go well on your re ring. FWIW I pulled my first stage cylinder today to get it re honed and as I pulled the head off he cylinder the valve assembly separated internally rather than pulling loose at the head gasket.
                  Had I known this could happen I would have pulled the cylinder and head off as a single unit and (with it sitting on my workbench) used a single edge razor blade around the perimeter of the headgasket to break its seal without stressing the bond holding the valve plate/disc??? together.
                  I am convinced you will need to break the glaze on your cylinder to get the rings to seal and I don't know how you will do this without popping the head off.
                  I carefully put the reed valves back on their respective pins and put the two halves of the valve plate back together and reassebled the cylinder/head on the compressor. I will test it with some soapy water to see what kind of leakage I have around the perimeter tomorrow. It seemed to be holding somewhat on the brief test run this afternoon but it was not looking very promising when I was contemplating the upper and lower half with torn gasket material between them.
                  This is where Britcnguser may be onto something with the idea that it is in many circumstances cheaper to hire a pro.
                  I hate the expense of unnecessary mistakes but I ultimately learn something from each of them

                  Good luck putting those new rings in and I hope they seat well for you.

                  I strongly encourage you to do some research on break in oil prior to running those new rings with royal purple/synthetic oil. If you do get the glaze removed from your cyllinder with a hone be sure to give the bore a thorough scrubbing with scouring powder followed by lots of soapy water.to get all the grit from the honing out.
                  Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
                  New parts arrived, got a 1st stage wrist pin and 2 sets of rings

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]4848[/ATTACH]

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                  • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                    Got the cylinder deglazed today, also pulled the 1st stage wrist pin, it has a slight gall but it's in great shape compared to the 2nd stage wrist pin.

                    20150325_224723.jpg

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                    • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                      Originally posted by flatracker View Post
                      There have been multiple mch5's on here between 2and 3 thousand hrs with the same situation of low flow even after considerable parts replacement one even received a factory replacement.so do the dealers know this is the life of these machines and remaining mum, or????
                      I haven't been able to figure out what is happening with the CNG machines. For air use, we have a TON of air compressors in the field that have ten thousand hours or more and they pump to 4500 psi! There are a couple of dive shops in FL that have their 500 hour service done every four to six weeks and have been doing it for several years. I would expect more failures on air than CNG since you pump to 3200 and air is pumped much higher. The only real differences I can see is that the inlet CNG is usually not as clean/dry as air and quite a few of the CNG operators use foreign oils instead of what Coltri specifies.
                      Ray Contreras
                      CompressorStuff.com

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                      • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                        Ray can I get confirmation on this.....how much of a cfm intake drop should there be from initial start (currently I'm at 3.5cfm@under 500psi) to 3000+ psi (current I'm at 1 cfm)

                        is this normal?

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                        • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                          Here's how I pressed the old 1st stage bearing out

                          20150326_024913.jpg

                          This one (1st stage wrist pin needle bearing) is a Torrington HK2020B....5.99$ at my local bearing shop

                          20150326_164626.jpg20150326_164626.jpg
                          Last edited by trdscfjc; 03-26-2015, 05:54 PM.

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                          • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                            Originally posted by rcontrera View Post
                            I haven't been able to figure out what is happening with the CNG machines. For air use, we have a TON of air compressors in the field that have ten thousand hours or more and they pump to 4500 psi! There are a couple of dive shops in FL that have their 500 hour service done every four to six weeks and have been doing it for several years. I would expect more failures on air than CNG since you pump to 3200 and air is pumped much higher. The only real differences I can see is that the inlet CNG is usually not as clean/dry as air and quite a few of the CNG operators use foreign oils instead of what Coltri specifies.
                            Utility gas should be at least as dry if not drier than air; The moisture is probably not the problem, but utility gas has sulphur and mercaptan (odorant) in it. This has been my biggest problem with my Fuelmaker for years. The sulphur and mercaptan is in a gaseous state until it gets in the compressor, where it turns into fine powder and clogs everything up. I installed a Parker desiccant dryer in my supply line three weeks ago, which I filled with molecular sieve 13X. The molecular sieve is supposed to remove the sulphur and clean the gas. The first thing that I noticed is that it removes most of the odorant (mercaptan) from the gas. It only has a slight smell left. As far as the powder build up, I'll know for sure after running it for a couple of months.

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                            • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                              Originally posted by trdscfjc View Post
                              Ray can I get confirmation on this.....how much of a cfm intake drop should there be from initial start (currently I'm at 3.5cfm@under 500psi) to 3000+ psi (current I'm at 1 cfm)

                              is this normal?
                              There is always going to be a little drop from low to high pressure. However, that really is excessive. My littlest air compressor is 3.5 CFM and at 4500 psi it drops to 3.1-3.2 CFM. The first suspects are valves. Rings are usually pretty easy to tell since it leaks into the sump and you can tell when pressure has increased by just holding your hand over the oil tube while it is pumping.
                              Ray Contreras
                              CompressorStuff.com

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                              • Re: look what I found lurking in my 3rd stage head (MCH5)

                                Originally posted by hypermilinggx View Post
                                Utility gas should be at least as dry if not drier than air; The moisture is probably not the problem, but utility gas has sulphur and mercaptan (odorant) in it. This has been my biggest problem with my Fuelmaker for years. The sulphur and mercaptan is in a gaseous state until it gets in the compressor, where it turns into fine powder and clogs everything up. I installed a Parker desiccant dryer in my supply line three weeks ago, which I filled with molecular sieve 13X. The molecular sieve is supposed to remove the sulphur and clean the gas. The first thing that I noticed is that it removes most of the odorant (mercaptan) from the gas. It only has a slight smell left. As far as the powder build up, I'll know for sure after running it for a couple of months.
                                I have now pumped approx. 160 GGE's of CNG while using molecular sieve 13X in my prefilter(filter set up prior to NG going into MCH5) and the results are outstanding. In the past I would get 1-2 ounces of oil/moisture coming from the discharge filter attached to the compressor. I have not had any moisture/oil since using the 13X. I suggest after getting compressor fixed that you use the 13X.

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