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Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

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  • Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

    Anyone know if the Elster AC630 diaphragm meter can supply the needed volume for a Bauer C120-6?

    if so at what percentage capacity will the meter be at?
    Did the math and it looks good but want to make sure I'm not missing something

    http://www.imacsystems.com/ac630.htm

  • #2
    Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

    [QUOTE=trdscfjc;69005]Anyone know if the Elster AC630 diaphragm meter can supply the needed volume for a Bauer C120-6?

    if so at what percentage capacity will the meter be at?
    Did the math and it looks good but want to make sure I'm not missing something

    That meter can accurately measure up to 5gge per hour. I think that even a much smaller meter like an AC250, will flow enough gas to a big compressor, but it just won't measure it all. The meter can only turn so fast and you will get free gas. It's not that the meter can't flow enough gas; it just can't measure it all.
    Last edited by hypermilinggx; 12-27-2014, 06:18 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

      if the meter can not flow the gas you will have a pressure drop and will bill you for gas you did not get as the cf of gas is thinner at lower pressure. I have more problem with regulators that cant flow the gas. ie a sensus 143 regulator at 10 psi coming from the street should have a 5/8 orifice but if you have 100 psi coming from the street it should have a 1/8 orifice to flow about the same amount of gas. now where I find a lot of problems is that the gas co will have lines with 15psi to 60psi around town so they will just carry regulators with a 3/16 or 1/4 orifices and use them everywhere.that works fine most of the time as most houses will not max out the regulator. If they have a problem they will just come back and change the orifice or most gas co will just install a bigger regulator due to liability. now with us we are pushing the limits of a house regulator and meter so this is a big deal to have the right orifice.if you are running out of gas the first thing to do is find out what the street pressure is and check what size orifice you have than go to your regulators co web site and find the orifice size chart for your regulator and check to see if it is properly sized if not have the gas co change it. I am able to fix about 1/2 of low gas flow doing this in residential low gas calls. meter above is capable of 5gge @.25 psi 11 gge at 2 psi and 17gge @25 psi just looked at meters web site
      Last edited by cowboy; 12-27-2014, 09:34 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

        An easy way to check the street pressure is to use an air conditioning manifold gauge set. Remove the regulator diaphragm, which will expose the orifice. Then barely crack the main shutoff valve open and press the rubber tipped end of the ac manifold gauge hose over the orifice hole. Use the blue (low pressure) gauge and hose. The gauge will slowly go up and then stop. This is the street pressure, or the pressure before the regulator.

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        • #5
          Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

          I just take a old orifice and drill and tap it for 1/4 pipe and screw a long 1/4 inch nipple in and fit a 100psi gauge to it than just screw the orifice out and screw the adapted one in and turn the gas on slowly as I have found a few places that had well over 100 psi to the house. not many but 3or4 in all the years I have been fooling with gas the above will work to. one could even fit a # 4 jic to the modified orifice and than hook the ac gauge to it

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          • #6
            Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

            Call your utility and ask what your service pressure is, work with them on the installation of your compressor for meter & regulator sizing. The utility I work for would make you run welded line for a 2 PSI house line and may make you run 2 regulators. One for the compressor a another for any thing else or they will split the riser and have you pay for 2 meters. The advantage to this is the rate you would pay for compressing gas is the lowest rate. The utility may also make you pay for a compensated index. Those costs will be a lot cheaper than if they find you tampering with their equipment. The AC-630 will flow 1390 CFPH @ 2 PSI. Keep in mind in residential areas the fire marshal will usually limit your compressor to no more the 2 GGE. per hour.

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            • #7
              Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

              the service pressure is not the problem the problem that I have found is that a lot of gas co will install a orifice that is to small for the street pressure and can not flow the cfh at the rating of the regulator.I can not think why one would need a compensated index as all the have to do is put a multiplier in the billing computer as the service pressure is set @ 2 psi and should not vary. compensated indexes are for services that operates at varying pressures and they are pricy.and why in the world would you need welded pipe at two pounds of pressure. the multiplier at 2 psig would be 1.113 I dont understand why a gas co would try to make it hard on one to install a compressor when they are in the business of selling gas.
              Last edited by cowboy; 12-28-2014, 11:06 AM.

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              • #8
                Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                Mike, Have you actually been required to use welded pipe to run 2 psi upstream from a residential meter?
                My limited understanding of this is that the requirement for welded fittings only applies to pipe 4" and larger.
                My incoming gas supply is approx 40 psi and the connection to the 3/4" shut off valve and regulator inlet are not welded. At some point my between the street and the steel pipe supplying my meter the utility transitions to polyethelene pipe.which I seem to recall is fusion welded but I don't think this is what you are referring to???
                I am also curious if you think trdfjsc could also just install his own regulator set to 1.5 psi at the meter outlet if his jurisdiction really does require welding 2 psi supply piping.
                Where does the gas utility you work for turn over the regulation of gas piping to the local building department?. I am accustomed to the utility monitoring compliance with everything up to the meter outlet and leaving the piping upstream to the building dept and whatever plumbing code they adhere to.
                Thanks,
                Karl
                Originally posted by cngmike View Post
                Call your utility and ask what your service pressure is, work with them on the installation of your compressor for meter & regulator sizing. The utility I work for would make you run welded line for a 2 PSI house line and may make you run 2 regulators. One for the compressor a another for any thing else or they will split the riser and have you pay for 2 meters. The advantage to this is the rate you would pay for compressing gas is the lowest rate. The utility may also make you pay for a compensated index. Those costs will be a lot cheaper than if they find you tampering with their equipment. The AC-630 will flow 1390 CFPH @ 2 PSI. Keep in mind in residential areas the fire marshal will usually limit your compressor to no more the 2 GGE. per hour.

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                • #9
                  Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                  Karl & Cowboy, this is why I recommend you get your local utility involved before you purchase your compressor. let alone install it .There are Gas utilities that will fine you for altering their equipment, and they can refuse you service for tampering & or being a public safety hazard. Gas utilities are heavily regulated, & have to show & document that they take action on things that are considered safety issues, you tampering with a regulator falls under this umbrella. Any jurisdiction can set regulations that are more stringent, the building & planning department oversees the area that the gas utility I work for has set 2 psi as the point one has to use welded line, & yes I have seen 3/4" welded line carrying 2# to a series for roof mounted heaters that are then regulated at the appliance. The other thing that your local utility can tell you is the lowest pressure that your area will see. In the winter it is not uncommon to have a significant pressure drop at certain times of day. As for a corrected index, that is purely up to the utility in the area. There are well over 150 gas utilities in the US and each conduct business deferent then all the others.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                    gosh I am glad I live where I do as the guys and gals down at the gas co give me almost anything I want.Some day I am going to see if I can get the two hundred psig that in my front yard and build me a station. just think just only two stages needed to get there

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                    • #11
                      Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                      Get a PSE (preliminary site evaluation) from your gas utility. This free service will paint a picture for you of your operating conditions under several possible scenarios. With the completed PSE you will be able to determine not only what your inlet requirements are, but will have a more accurate picture of exactly what your output will be. Keep in mind that Bauer always lists performance based upon maximum allowable inlet pressure, so if you are operating a 5psi max. machine on 2 psi, your output will be slightly less. This becomes much more important on bigger machines and/or units operating on higher inlet pressures.

                      Working with your utility is often a gigantic pain in the butt - all the bureaucracy of the federal government but somehow with even more 'attitude'. Yet, it is important to slog through the procedure and get your MSA and inlet piping done right.. Issues out here on the 'dumb' end of the system can cause major heartache downstream.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                        Originally posted by revolution cng systems View Post
                        Get a PSE (preliminary site evaluation) from your gas utility. This free service will paint a picture for you of your operating conditions under several possible scenarios. With the completed PSE you will be able to determine not only what your inlet requirements are, but will have a more accurate picture of exactly what your output will be. Keep in mind that Bauer always lists performance based upon maximum allowable inlet pressure, so if you are operating a 5psi max. machine on 2 psi, your output will be slightly less. This becomes much more important on bigger machines and/or units operating on higher inlet pressures.

                        Working with your utility is often a gigantic pain in the butt - all the bureaucracy of the federal government but somehow with even more 'attitude'. Yet, it is important to slog through the procedure and get your MSA and inlet piping done right.. Issues out here on the 'dumb' end of the system can cause major heartache downstream.

                        i think im going to just stick with what i got, i have more then enough volume and the pressure is sufficient

                        too many cooks in the kitchen often leads to bad results

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                        • #13
                          Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                          …..As long as you are sure you know the recipe.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                            I have found that Bauers like lower inlet pressures, you can hear the difference.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Running a bauer C120 -6 using a AC-630 meter at 2 psi inlet pressure

                              Originally posted by revolution cng systems View Post
                              …..As long as you are sure you know the recipe.
                              most of the time I end up with a really good cake with real good frosting and a cherry on top

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