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Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

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  • Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

    I personally installed 2 2011 F-150 kits for the local gas company. The second truck came in for a gas smell at the end of May. I could not find the leak at that time. The driver popped in and showed me the leak that he had found at the end of a preformed hose. I scheduled a time and he returned on June 6th. I removed the 18mm clamp on the right fuel rail end and installed a 17mm clamp. He returned on 8/9/12 with a leak on the left side connection to the fuel rail. The driver wanted the clamp on the left side replaced I replaced the clamp on that side. On 9/27/12 he returned again and I found the other end of the hoses leaking at the Y. I had been in contact with the company that supplied the kit from sometime in June about this issue. I contacted them in the first week of October and told them that the hoses were leaking from the other end. I replace the hoses on both trucks on 10/10/12 with a new set. The driver returned the next morning with fuel leaks. I found that the hoes were leaking out the threads at the ends. I measured the OD of the hoses and they had swelled over .100" overnight. I contacted the manufacture and they said the regulator pressure had to be the issue. The pressure was right on target. Then they said I had to be using a lubricant that did this. That was not the issue. On the 18th I got authorization to do the fix I came up with for the 2 trucks. I found that the Hoses in question had a SAE code (30R6) on them. I notified the company supplying the kits that it appeared to me that the hoses are not rated for the 2.5 bar that the regulators was set to. The Kit comes with a Max Working pressure of 450 kpa labels to be installed on the 30R6 hoses. 450 kpa is about 63 psi.

    On 11/23/13 we started servicing another Natural Gas companies vehicles. The first F-250 came in on that date. This truck had the brand of kit and also had the same part number hose used. The hoses were leaking on this truck also. It took until 12/14/13 to get another authorized deviation and then get it installed. When the driver came to pick up this vehicle I talked to him for a little bit. I found out that they had these hoses replaced 2 times prior and that the Ford dealer had been ordering the parts directly from the kit company. The Ford was purchasing the hoses outright and charging Piedmont. The Ford dealer was not an authorize repair facility. This would mean that 4 sets of hoses had been on this one truck in 18,374 miles.

    That company was so happy they sent me 3 more trucks with the same kit and the same leaking hoses. The trucks came in on 1/8/13. I went around and around with the company supplying the kits. I got 3 sets of hose and install one set on 1/11/13. I pressurized the low side and 3 hours later and they have started to leak. The right side has grown .096" in less than 3 hours of sitting with the key OFF. The left side has grown .086". They were also leaking from the ends.

    I gave him all of the information that I had collected.

    The hoses in question are not CNG rated and are not rated for the pressure that they are using.
    Last edited by caleditor; 07-29-2013, 06:42 AM.
    Cal Editor aka A.J.
    Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
    ASE Master Certified since 1988
    ASE L1 Certified since 1994
    ASE F1 & A9
    GM Technician since 1999
    GM World Class Technician since 2009
    CSA Inspector

  • #2
    Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

    SAE
    Fuel and Oil Hoses
    Product Code: J30
    Scope
    This SAE Standard covers fuel and oil hose, coupled and uncoupled, for use with gasoline, oil, diesel fuel, lubrication oil, or the vapor present in either the fuel system or in the crankcase of internal combustion engines in mobile, stationary, and marine applications.

    Section 3 covers Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R2).
    Section 4 covers Lightweight Braided Reinforced Lacquer, Cement, or Rubber Covered Hose (SAE 30R3).
    Section 5 covers Wire Inserted Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R5).

    Section 6 covers Low-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R6), (SAE 30R7), (SAE 30R8).

    Sections 7 and 11 cover hose intended to meet the demands of fuel injection systems.
    Section 7 covers Fuel Injection Hose Medium-Pressure Coupled and Uncoupled Synthetic Rubber Tube and Cover (SAE 30R9).

    Section 8 covers In-Tank, Low-Pressure, Uncoupled Fuel Hoses (SAE 30R10).
    Section 9 covers Unified Method for Fuel Hose Permeation.

    Sections 10 and 11 cover hose intended to meet low fuel permeation requirements.
    Section 10 covers Low Permeation Fuel Fill and Vent Hose (SAE 30R11)
    Section 11 covers Low Permeation Fuel Feed and Return Hose (SAE 30R12).es (SAE 30R10).


    This is what Gates has to say about the hoses. I can tell you that they did not appear to be a Gates product

    Cal Editor aka A.J.
    Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
    ASE Master Certified since 1988
    ASE L1 Certified since 1994
    ASE F1 & A9
    GM Technician since 1999
    GM World Class Technician since 2009
    CSA Inspector

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

      This is a hose on a 2011 5.3L Silverado. This truck had been serviced buy Impco prior to coming to us to have the heated fuel rails installed

      http://youtu.be/7w-kDJdjHx0

      http://youtu.be/hK2QS4cMlEU

      http://youtu.be/8rwG6qftjig
      Cal Editor aka A.J.
      Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
      ASE Master Certified since 1988
      ASE L1 Certified since 1994
      ASE F1 & A9
      GM Technician since 1999
      GM World Class Technician since 2009
      CSA Inspector

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

        I was told over and over that I was the only person with this issue. The very first truck I did for the 2nd gas company had the hoses replaced twice before it came to me. They way I do the math it equals 4 sets of hoses in less than 20k miles and not one other person had brought this to the attention of Impco.

        I found out that they had these hoses replaced 2 times prior and that the Ford dealer had been ordering the parts directly from the kit company. The Ford was purchasing the hoses outright and charging Piedmont. The Ford dealer was not an authorize repair facility. This would mean that 4 sets of hoses had been on this one truck in 18,374 miles.
        Cal Editor aka A.J.
        Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
        ASE Master Certified since 1988
        ASE L1 Certified since 1994
        ASE F1 & A9
        GM Technician since 1999
        GM World Class Technician since 2009
        CSA Inspector

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

          First truck that had an issue and the first set of hoses







          This was the 2nd set of hoses that were on for just a few thousand miles. You can see how much that they had swelled


          Cal Editor aka A.J.
          Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
          ASE Master Certified since 1988
          ASE L1 Certified since 1994
          ASE F1 & A9
          GM Technician since 1999
          GM World Class Technician since 2009
          CSA Inspector

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

            This was my test set. I installed the set of hoses and allowed the system to switch over to CNG. Then I shut the truck off and waited 3 hours. This is what I found.

            Brand new hose


            3 hours later


            Cal Editor aka A.J.
            Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
            ASE Master Certified since 1988
            ASE L1 Certified since 1994
            ASE F1 & A9
            GM Technician since 1999
            GM World Class Technician since 2009
            CSA Inspector

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

              shucks looks like heater hose and cheap clamps must be how cheap can we make it why even worry about unapproved kits if this is what you get with aproved kits

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

                Cowboy is right; here it is all about EPA kits. With junk parts like that someone could get killed with leaks like that or at least give CNG cars and trucks a bad rap. On all my kits a use the blue high pressure lines up to 300 PSI. And the kits I import use lines good for 200 PSI+.
                Bob Mann

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

                  Impco now uses Parker CNG hose to replace the preformed hoses shown

                  2012 use steel braided lines
                  Cal Editor aka A.J.
                  Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
                  ASE Master Certified since 1988
                  ASE L1 Certified since 1994
                  ASE F1 & A9
                  GM Technician since 1999
                  GM World Class Technician since 2009
                  CSA Inspector

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fuel leak or fuel smell on 2011 and prior systems

                    With all of the screwing around trying to get a fix for these vehicles we lost the account. They were not happy with a range of 14 to 30+ days to fix a leak. We had a few other issues also
                    Cal Editor aka A.J.
                    Lead Calibrator at PCM Calibrators
                    ASE Master Certified since 1988
                    ASE L1 Certified since 1994
                    ASE F1 & A9
                    GM Technician since 1999
                    GM World Class Technician since 2009
                    CSA Inspector

                    Comment

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