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  • #46
    Re: diesel - CNG

    First round of testing complete and all I'm going to say for now is .....WOW.....
    Dyno, smog, and a 4500 mile longevity road test are coming. Anyone nead anything brought back from VA?
    sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
    SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

    2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
    2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
    1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
    2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

    FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

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    • #47
      Re: diesel - CNG

      I've got a 2003 GMC Duramax Diesel with a DeLuca CNG kit. It runs great. The truck is for sale at Canyon Motors 610 West Center Street in Provo, UT 801-356-1750. $21,500. With the 70%/30% mix your average fuel cost is about $1.90/gallon. To see pictures go to KSL.com - classifieds - cars - bi-fuel

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      • #48
        Re: diesel - CNG

        Murphy,

        I'm glad you're pursuing the Diesel bifuel path. Are you aware of any providers of Diesel bifuel with a proven track record? I keep coming up with companies who are in proof of concept phase. But the technology seems to have been around for a long time, and has even been used in the power generation industry.

        And I guess a related question is who did your installation on the big truck?

        Marshall Hammond
        CNG Transport
        Austin, TX

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        • #49
          Re: diesel - CNG

          I had an interesting call from Texas today regarding biodiesel-cng. Has anyone heard of experiments/projects involving this particular combination?

          What I know is the biodiesel stock is soy beans, they experimented with several source stocks before setteling on soy, and they've lost 3 motors so far.

          This is also for a stationary generator, not a vehicle. The generator is a standard diesel generator and the fuel ratio is 70/30, with cng being the 30. They can't figure out why the motors are blowing... anyone have an idea?
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4586_1441434431016_578[/ATTACH]

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          • #50
            Re: diesel - CNG

            That is interesting, usually the ratio I have read about is the opposite, 30% diesel, 70% methane. I also read somewhere that someone had developed an injection system that injected just a tiny amount of diesel to ignite the methane fuel. When they did the show on "Trucks" they made biodiesel from waste veggie (fast food) and filled a Dodge-Cummings truck, it ran great, and it is supposed to be cleaner and give more power than the fossil diesel. Maybe it has something to do with the type of (soy) oil they used? I've never heard of any problems using biodiesel, I'd suspect it is some other problem, not the fuel.
            I sure would like to see a pure CNG-diesel car made soon.
            Just my 2 cents!
            BLUE 09 GX

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            • #51
              Re: diesel - CNG

              Leaving Phoenix for WV in 1 day we will run 50/50 on the way out if everything feels good we will run 70/30 on the way back. about 5500 miles in all running 24hours a day until the trip is complete. Should be a pretty good test for us. We've already logged 1000 miles on our diesel/cng truck with no problems. Actually the truck seems to be running better than ever.
              sigpichttp://WWW.CNGMOTORS.COM
              SAVE TIME. SAVE MONEY. SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT.

              2003 Hummer H2 bi-fuel
              2000 GMC Yukon XL bi-fuel
              1999 International 4700 dual-fuel
              2007 Chevy Avalanche bi-fuel

              FMQ2-36 Fuelmaker w/ 24 GGE cascade

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: diesel - CNG

                Originally posted by Curtis View Post
                I had an interesting call from Texas today regarding biodiesel-cng. Has anyone heard of experiments/projects involving this particular combination?

                What I know is the biodiesel stock is soy beans, they experimented with several source stocks before setteling on soy, and they've lost 3 motors so far.

                This is also for a stationary generator, not a vehicle. The generator is a standard diesel generator and the fuel ratio is 70/30, with cng being the 30. They can't figure out why the motors are blowing... anyone have an idea?
                Thats interesting. I would like to know the nature of the engine failure? Was the bio-diesel real bio-diesel meeting ASTM standards?

                Bio-diesel is good in many ways. what I like is the better lubricity. Also, Bio-diesel over 20% will have an increase in NOx emissions. Its also a good detergent.

                larrycng

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                • #53
                  Re: diesel - CNG

                  I was busy at the time and asked the caller to email me, which she hasnt. I advised her to join the forum and post here, but I am not sure she did. Hopefully she'll jump in here and assist us in helping her.
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4586_1441434431016_578[/ATTACH]

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                  • #54
                    Re: diesel - CNG

                    Our local college has a class that makes biodiesel. Many of the oils available used for fuel are actually not suitable, if the oil has been overheated or reheated too many times it changes the molecular structure and it does not support combustion nearly as well. In the last class the students gathered cooking oil from 8 different places, several had been overheated so bad that they would not support combustion, others would make poor fuel & two worked great. I cannot just take used cooking oil (I suppose some of you can) and run it through a filter and cross your fingers! The prospective fuel requires several tests to before even beginning. Our instructor has made his own fuel and used it for several years with no problem (he has over 120,000 miles on his).
                    If the biodiesel is properly prepared it works fine, if it is not it can wax/sludge up causing fuel system problems, decreased flow and could cause engine failure
                    As far as cng added to diesel, I know of systems that have logged well over 100,000 miles with no problems. In just the systems that I am aware of, there have probably been close to one million miles with no problems at all.
                    If you try and run too lean (over 80%cng) it can cause pyrometer readings to go high on a hard pull & can cause heating problems.
                    What is the failure on these engines? One cylinder meltdown, damage on the top of the piston, cyllinder lubrication, insuffecient piston to wall clearance from increased temp. Are they using a cng injection system, a fogger system? The person left no information to enable us to offer any help.
                    The average diesel mpg on vehicles I am aware of is 40 mpg on Dodge cummins, 42 mpg on Chevy duramax, and 35 on Ford powerstroke. Systems can run as high as 50 mpg, but you experience some miss at part throttle steady speed & temps can rise. Personally I do not like to see more than 70%cng

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                    • #55
                      Re: diesel - CNG

                      Thank you for posting the comment about a potential problem with re-heating (actually rapid heating/cooling, etc.) biodiesel prior to introduction into a powerplant. The ideal will likely vary based on the products chemistry and individual powerplant, as no hard and fast biodiesel production protocols exist, to my knowledge. Variation in polymerization create formulas all over the map. I am working on an end-stage fuel filter at the end of the biodiesel production cycle, with the intent of providing reliable reproducibility in production that can be tailored to different power plants. We have had some success. Will let you know.

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                      • #56
                        Re: diesel - CNG

                        I have run tens of thousands of miles on my Duramax using B100 and cng or lp with no problems. However, I only use bio from virgin soy beans made by a company, not homebrew.
                        '04 Silverado Duramax w/cng injection system
                        '95 Suburban 4BT Cummins w/cng injection
                        '05 Jeep Liberty diesel w/cng injection
                        '91 V3500 454 LP gas
                        '72 Impala LP gas

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                        • #57
                          Re: diesel - CNG

                          I have spent a lot of time reading the posts here about add a fuel supplement of cng or lpg to diesel .There are a lot of claims that seem to be way out ,Or in better terms I just don't believe .
                          I have one on my own truck (LPG),Which consists of a "J" propane regulator.(I noticed that some of these so called milage systems use)
                          Which says it can support 100 hp gas so in therory it should add 100 hp to diesel ,On mine I figured it added at best 20 hp if that .One problem it had was the little sparg tube just didn't work ,I spent a lot of time studying how a venturi worked ,Then being a machinist I fabracted mine own venturi ,It was a vast improvement .from 10 hp to 20 "Wow "I can tell you that the $600 expence was not worth it .1 to 2 miles a gallon and 20 hp ,was all I recieved at the end


                          Now the modifactions that have been doen to my truck that were worth the money:

                          1) Edge Drag comp box ,Cost $600.00,It allows me to turn up and down the power ,Very useful driving on the highway ,Turn it down on flat land for better milage ,Punch it up for hill climbing power

                          2) Added a twin turb system Cost was $1500. Consists of a Gta 4202 garrett and a holset wh1e,It gives me 60 psi boosts.The real benifit is free horse power, milage still remains the same .


                          There seems to be a lot of "arm chair mechanics" chiming in here on how in theory , all this works ,IMO ,There still needs to be a certain level of diesel to support the combustion .The question is how ,Do you turn off the diesel in a controled and regulated manor?

                          I even own a truck with it on ,The facts are : my engine from the factory is rated at 215 hp how will I detune it and add a gas that is not precision metered in the engine and make up a loss of 100 hp???

                          Someone will stick one on and they will not be happy either by the lack of performance of by the loss of an engine..

                          "Sorry about the misspelled words"

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                          • #58
                            Re: diesel - CNG

                            I would be interested in knowing what kit you used --- an open tube in the inlet --- give me a break, what kind of engineering went into the kit! Which set of springs are you useing on the zero pressure regulator? What is the opening pressure of the final regulator? What vacuum reading does your manometer show? What volume is your venturi set for? What percentage of cng to diesel do you use? When does your system start cng flow? Where is your venturi placed?
                            I have done this for years, it is like setting up fuel flow and timing advance on an old carbureted system, manifold or ported, vacuum begins at ? rpm, max vacuum at 1200, 1500, 1800, 2100? What jet size at 250, 400, 550, 650, & 700 cfm.
                            I fix vehicles from people all the time who can change parts and think that makes them a technician. Some of them dont even know how to properly set up a vacuum advance or balance it to the carburetor. These diesel kits are the same way, bolting on parts and crossing your fingers does not work, what are your specifications and I can help you. If you have no idea of the manometter reading, fuel flow, air volume or percentage then I cant.
                            Yesterday I drove my powerstroke for 240 miles, I used 9 gallons of cng and 56 gallons of diesel, my average fuel economy was 16 mpg -- exactly the same as on diesel alone, but cng costs 87 cents and diesel costs $4.35 per gallon and I replaced 9 gallons for an average diesel fuel mileage of 40 and a cost savings of $31.32 on this trip. I have saved enough on fuel costs to pay for my truck.
                            You may be good but to make a statement that since you could not make your system work all other systems and the technicins that install them are bogus is a mighty lofty opinion.
                            Again --- if you send me some specifications so I can see what you used to reach your conclusions I can help. I would also like to see your version of the venturi you designed, along with the vacuum generated against the regulator spring pressure at the final stage.
                            Stan

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                            • #59
                              Re: diesel - CNG

                              Sorry -- I used 6 gallons of fuel not 56.
                              Stan

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                              • #60
                                Re: diesel - CNG

                                I forgot a decimal -- I used 5.6 gallons of diesel and rounded it to the nearest gallon for calculations.
                                Stan

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