Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • larrycng
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Well , let me give this a try off the top of my old white head. Did a little cut and paste with your post
    Have a Hummer2 would love to convert if possible. Questions?

    1. Saftey - how safe is it to convert to Hydrogen or Natural Gas? In my less than humble opinion they are about equal. H2 has a smaller molecule that make leaking easier but it dissipates very quickly than CNG. The flammability limit is very wide and it takes about 1/10 of the energy of gasoline to ignite.

    2. What is better Hydrogen or Natrual Gas? H2 is cleaner, the biggest problem is N0x, but that can be controlled by lean burn technology. Lean it out to around 0.5 Fe and N0x will be very low. For a 526 cid (punched out FE block) engine about 270 ppm N0x on a Calif ASM with 17% O2

    3. Where can you convert your Vehicle for $10k? Probably for a bit more, not that much

    4. Live in CA - No I didn't vote for that idiot Arnold - Do they offer any $ to
    assist with conversion?

    5. How far can you go with either Hydrogen or Natural Gas?

    6. If convert how large of a tank can we install?

    7. What is the cost per mile compared to Petroleum, Hydrogen, Natural Gas? I know of a H2 Cobra that was getting 20 mpg with the 526 cid Ford FE. At last check H2 was going for about $8.00 per Kilo/GGE. CNG in the same area of CA $1.30/gge about 3 week ago, and gasoline 1.80/ gal

    8. How do we fill up? The process is about the same as CNG, except with addition of an external ground strap at most facilities.

    9. How many places do they have in CA, Nevada, Oregon, Washington?

    10. How does this affect the vehicle warranty?

    11. How does this affect our insurance?

    12. What is the process to manufacture Hydrogen or Natural Gas? One of the main methods is steam reforming of natural gas; there can be N0x and CO2 issues and additional costs. Electrolysis is the other one which is cleaner depending on the source of the electricity and is even more costly. What do you do with the water and minerals and KOh that has to be added to the water?

    13. How does the manufacturing process effect the environment?
    Last edited by larrycng; 02-02-2009, 09:32 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hummer2
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Have a Hummer2 would love to convert if possible. Questions?

    1. Saftey - how safe is it to convert to Hydrogen or Natural Gas?
    2. What is better Hydrogen or Natrual Gas?
    3. Where can you convert your Vehicle for $10k
    4. Live in CA - No I didn't vote for that idiot Arnold - Do they offer any $ to
    assist with conversion
    5. How far can you go with either Hydrogen or Natural Gas?
    6. If convert how large of a tank can we install
    7. What is the cost per mile compared to Petroleum, Hydrogen, Natural Gas?
    8. How do we fill up?
    9. How many places do they have in CA, Nevada, Oregon, Washigton?
    10. How does this affect the vehicle warranty?
    11. How does this affect our insurance?
    12. What is the process to manufacture Hydrogen or Natural Gas?
    13. How does the manufacturing process effect the environment?

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Techie
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by camryman View Post

    Too bad it is illegal to convert a new hybrid camry to CNG unless someone makes a epa carb approved kit. Carb approval Cost $250,000 and up. Carb sucks, what a racket they have.

    Doesn't the government makes it hard for everyone to kick the gasoline habit.
    Some people do. If done correctly, it is a safe set-up. You cannot do it in an area that controls emissions, they will fail you for tampering but in a rural area, no problems. You would run cleaner and more efficient. CNG does not carbon up cylinders like gasoline does.

    Leave a comment:


  • Techie
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by Highmarker View Post
    I found this article put out by Central Connecticut State University. See link below.

    http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

    Hopefully in the near future, batteries will be developed that don't harm the environment. After reading this article, now I just laugh at all the electric hybrids on the road.
    As technology gets better, these old Ni-hydride batteries will be recycled more and more frequently. Re-conditioned batteries will make it to the store. Back in the days, I remember, cell phone batteries did not last either, but they came a long way. Hybrid batteries will too.

    Leave a comment:


  • ch4
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by TheBundo View Post
    One major problem in the analysis is the new EPA criteria. It now assumes an acceleration rate of 8 mph per second (close to full throttle, basically, in a hybrid) and a highway speed of 80 mph (illegal almost everywhere). Couple that with the fact that most of us that own hybrids (I own 2, a 4 door Civic and a 2WD Escape, as well as a GX) practice "hypermiling" to some extent, and generally DON"T drive anywhere near 80 mph and generally accelerate like there is an egg under our right foot.
    Right. This is why all the car co's, including Honda, are extrapolating their old data instead of actually running new EPA tests.
    They are mandated to run the new tests in 2010. Geeze, 2010.

    NOTE: The EPA mileage comes from the exact same test as the emission.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=The+E...ssion&ie=UTF-8

    BTW: Here in the Mountain West we drive 85 MPH.

    And I've had more than one Prius owner try to take me at the line.
    with 290 ft/lbs of torque.
    Last edited by ch4; 05-20-2008, 11:56 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBundo
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    One major problem in the analysis is the new EPA criteria. It now assumes an acceleration rate of 8 mph per second (close to full throttle, basically, in a hybrid) and a highway speed of 80 mph (illegal almost everywhere). Couple that with the fact that most of us that own hybrids (I own 2, a 4 door Civic and a 2WD Escape, as well as a GX) practice "hypermiling" to some extent, and generally DON"T drive anywhere near 80 mph and generally accelerate like there is an egg under our right foot.

    Leave a comment:


  • camryman
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Murphy, Do you have a pic of your FMQ2-36 with a cascade system... That sounds like a really cool set up.

    I think the both are nice vehicles but have different uses, It's not an apples to apples comparison. CNG is way cleaner and batteries are bad for the environment but they can be recycled. We all know a gasoline Prius is not anywhere as clean or $ per MPG efficient as a CNG civic CNG camry or your Hummer. But a CNG plug in Prius might have a good argument for environmental battery cost with ultra low emissions with long range and short range EV only mode.

    The optimum fuel efficient set up for a ICE (Internal combustion engine) vehicle would be a plug in cng HYBRID with Lithium Phosphate batteries. Supposedly the prius is approved for CNG in Europe but not the USA The USA is going to get a Hydrogen Fuel cell Prius .
    A Camry plug in CNG hybrid would be way more functional than a prius.

    Too bad it is illegal to convert a new hybrid camry to CNG unless someone makes a epa carb approved kit. Carb approval Cost $250,000 and up. Carb sucks, what a racket they have.

    Doesn't the government makes it hard for everyone to kick the gasoline habit.

    Leave a comment:


  • CNG MOTORS
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    The dedicated Hummer held 25 gallons of CNG, My daughter's Hummer only hold 5.5 gallons of CNG because she wanted to retain the 3rd row seat. and it's bi-fuel, but her commute to school is less than 1 mile each way. I also have a FMQ2-36 with a cascade system at home, So I fast fill from home if I need to. I don't use gasoline because I don't have to.

    Leave a comment:


  • cngaz
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    I've seen the emission test readings from that hummer, you would be amazed how clean it runs on natural gas. 2nd, it is dedicated, it won't ever touch a drop of imported petroleum, CNG for that vehicle only.
    A prius is pretty, but it can't say it won't ever touch petroleum.
    3rd, it fuels off an FMQ2-36, not a Phill. And the Phill lease is only available in California, we tried to get the program offered in Arizona, but Honda didn't go for it. And I would not reccomend a Phill for anything except a single commuter vehicle, If you are going to run multiple vehicles or high volume driving, always go with a larger fueling unit. We keep seeing the same pattern and now advise people to think about what they are doing and what they may do later. Everyone likes it so much they almost always go for a 2nd NGV. Don't go cheapest, go for whats best for your future needs.
    So, I have Prius friends and I do give them a hard time.
    We are still cleaner and petroleum free!

    Leave a comment:


  • sixb
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by Highmarker View Post
    What "small tank on that hummer" are you talking about? Are you talking about Murphy's DEDICATED hummer? I believe the CNG tanks on his hummer give him at least 20 GGEs. Correct me Murph.

    Don't get me wrong, I didn't post this thread to "stab Prius owners in the back". I just want to get the word out that electric hybrids are not as "green" as the public thinks they are. Hopefully, the technology will development that batteries will be more efficient and environmental friendly.
    Don't get me wrong either, and I don't feel like I've been stabbed in the back, but I think both technologys are very important for America to move in a different direction. Also I'm not near smart enough to argue about this topic, but it sure seems like a super moderator should be a little more open minded and not just laugh at every hybrid he sees, it tends to offend people. This post reminds me of the diesel truck wars between the power joke, dura slug and THE ALl MIGHTY CUMMINS Oh yea I'm just a redneck that is saving lots of money driving my cng truck, have fun and keep it informative, Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • mb2foru
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Dont forget to add the cost of the monthly Phill unit lease and electric cost and both are around a $90 a month added cost. A friend with a Hummer showed us how bad a Hummer at 100k looks and they didn't build them to last , they built them for repeat customers within 5 years due to old Hummer falling apart.

    Leave a comment:


  • Highmarker
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by sixb View Post
    Well your wrong on the state tax credit, hmmmmm, should I take your word for the conversion cost, the battery pack cost and life span, predicted life span on both hummer and the prius, I think not. I will make a prediction of my own. I bet the tank on that hummer is so small he has to run high octane unleaded gas half the time anywayand why not he obviously has lots of money
    What "small tank on that hummer" are you talking about? Are you talking about Murphy's DEDICATED hummer? I believe the CNG tanks on his hummer give him at least 20 GGEs. Correct me Murph.

    Don't get me wrong, I didn't post this thread to "stab Prius owners in the back". I just want to get the word out that electric hybrids are not as "green" as the public thinks they are. Hopefully, the technology will development that batteries will be more efficient and environmental friendly.

    Leave a comment:


  • sixb
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by j03j03 View Post
    Your kidding me right? Okay let me lay this out for you. Ahem, say you convert an H2, for the conversion your looking about $10,000. Give or take. Now if you did convert in the state of Utah you get $3,000 tax credit. You get an addtional $2,500 federal. So your getting $5,500 of your $10,000 back. Right? Unless my math is wrong...anyway, for the dealer to install a new battery pack is about $3,000. (And yes it only lasts about 100k.) Now if you consider that a NGV engine's predicted life span is over 300k you would have to do that at 100k, and 200k for the Prius. $6,000 dollars right? So $6,000 compaired to $4,500. Hmm, hard choice.

    So to answer your question: one.
    Well your wrong on the state tax credit, hmmmmm, should I take your word for the conversion cost, the battery pack cost and life span, predicted life span on both hummer and the prius, I think not. I will make a prediction of my own. I bet the tank on that hummer is so small he has to run high octane unleaded gas half the time anywayand why not he obviously has lots of money

    Leave a comment:


  • ch4
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Originally posted by CNG MOTORS View Post
    Tell me how you're liking that Prius when gas hits $5/gallon. Hey they said $100 oil was crazy too. With the road tax and state fees, ect, my NG gas bill from home was $1.43/gallon when I convert therms into gallons, last month
    It not that we don't like and respect Prius owners. Well - actually we don't.
    Since when is gas a clean-burning fuel. OK. They only use 40% less dirty burning gas (being conservative) of a say Corolla. But it is not clean.

    So, I go to the EPA website and get the methodology of EPA emissions testing.
    Guess What? The test does not start until a mandatory 10 min idle and drive around the track. Guess When a Catalitic Converter does not work - Yep, when you start the car. The Converter has to get up to temp to work. In the mean time all that nasty pollution goes right out the tail-pipe of the Prius.

    Further, the EPA testing in in OHIO in the Summer. So, unlike Utah in the Winter the Catalytic converter works alot faster.

    Yes, there is a reason most/all car companies are using the - Ahemm... extrapolation of the old results instead of actually testing the cars with the new EPA tests NOW.

    Now, given most car trips are less then 10 miles the Prius is looking a bit less green for the world and more green for Toyota.

    And why does AAA have a Class to teach you how to drive a Prius - We all did that in High School.

    Leave a comment:


  • CNG MOTORS
    replied
    Re: Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

    Tell me how you're liking that Prius when gas hits $5/gallon. Hey they said $100 oil was crazy too. With the road tax and state fees, ect, my NG gas bill from home was $1.43/gallon when I convert therms into gallons, last month

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X