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  • chargers for electric cars

    i have been watching the install of chargers around knoxville and have done the math at the cost from news paper numbers and it is around 20000 per charger instead of pissing tax money away why dont they put the charger in the car and just install a 220 plug and meter that has a cardreader or even cheaper a coinbox on the parking meters than there would be no compatibity problems as 220 is the standard in the us for high currant draw and alot of the world for everthing the only differance would be 50 or 60 cycles and that would not mater as it is to be converted to dc for charging and the citys would only have to maintain a simple electric meter and coinbox vs chargers that cost a lot to keep running

  • #2
    Re: chargers for electric cars

    The charger is in the cars for the 110v and 220v. The 110 v is just a cord with a fancy connector, and the 220v type is a fancy control box, box , and cord with connector to the car. The superfast "chargers" are costly. Have not seen one yet. Are the chargers ( or should I say charge controller box with cord and connector the ones being installed for 20K ? if so, a lot of pork is in those projects , as the 220v units sell for $600-$1800 , depending on where purchased.

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    • #3
      Re: chargers for electric cars

      i dont know what chargers are being put in just what the papers say. but how much can a transformer and 4 diodes in a bridge cost? oh dont forget the timer 29 more dollers

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      • #4
        Re: chargers for electric cars

        They are actually called EVSE's (electric vehicle service equipment). They are expensive, unnecessary, fancy switches that have a contactor inside to prevent you from plugging the vehicle charger into a recepticle that has power going through it. Most lawyers think you are too dumb to plug something in without electrocuting yourself. So for your protection, the switch that actually costs between $600 and $1000 is added to any place you need to charge your vehicle. Add to that cost the need to be able to charge you for "charging" along with wiring and installation and as Lakewood says "pork"---you can really run up the price. The quick chargers which actually are chargers, cost between 10 and 20 K and require a fairly robust 480 volt three phase circuit capable of providing 50 kilowatts of power. However, there is a squable over the type of connector to be used and the protocall for vehicle communication that will effectively slow or stop installation of these large chargers in the near term.

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        • #5
          Re: chargers for electric cars

          Originally posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
          The superfast "chargers" are costly. Have not seen one yet.


          The 440-volt one from Nissan.

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          • #6
            Re: chargers for electric cars

            Originally posted by siai47 View Post
            They are actually called EVSE's (electric vehicle service equipment). They are expensive, unnecessary, fancy switches that have a contactor inside to prevent you from plugging the vehicle charger into a recepticle that has power going through it. Most lawyers think you are too dumb to plug something in without electrocuting yourself. So for your protection, the switch that actually costs between $600 and $1000 is added to any place you need to charge your vehicle. Add to that cost the need to be able to charge you for "charging" along with wiring and installation and as Lakewood says "pork"---you can really run up the price. The quick chargers which actually are chargers, cost between 10 and 20 K and require a fairly robust 480 volt three phase circuit capable of providing 50 kilowatts of power. However, there is a squable over the type of connector to be used and the protocall for vehicle communication that will effectively slow or stop installation of these large chargers in the near term.
            this is my point if it was just a plugin of 240 than the protocall would not matter as it would be onboard and 50 kw is not that much power off the top of my head I am thinking about 210 amps at 240 single phase

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            • #7
              Re: chargers for electric cars

              Originally posted by cripple_rooster View Post


              The 440-volt one from Nissan.
              Actually the charger in this picture looks like the one in my garage; it's a 240 V Aerovironment unit. Note the connector; it's a J1772, confirming this is NOT a 440 V charger which is a DC unit using the CHAdeMO connector which is quite bit bigger. fyi, the socket on the right (when looking at front of car) on the Nissan Leaf is the J1772 , the larger socket on the left is the CHAdeMO, and it was an option for the 2011 model year Leafs.
              another picture of the Aeronvironment L2 charger: http://www.pluginamerica.org/accesso...onment-evse-rs
              picture of a quick DC L3 charger: (see bottom): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO
              Last edited by Curtis; 09-02-2012, 11:21 PM.
              Adrian

              Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
              Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
              Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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              • #8
                Re: chargers for electric cars

                Hey Adrian in California, how about giving us a Real World update on your first year owning Nissan Leaf electric car??

                What has been typical number of miles range on a charge, and how long to recharge battery on 240 volt?? Do you even mess with 120 volt recharging due to long time?

                As for cost, what is your best guess at Cost Per Mile of just electricity?

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                • #9
                  Re: chargers for electric cars

                  Your mileage may vary. I have a LEAF and average between four to five miles driven for every Kilowatt of energy delivered by the battery. You would have to plug in your own electric rate but in my case in Florida (no time of use rate available) it is about 15.7 cents per KWH including taxes. There is some loss between the energy coming from the wall to charge the battery compared to what you get back out but it is pretty small (around 10%). In my case the cost per mile is running around 3.8 cents for the electricity to drive one mile. 75 miles is pretty much the practical limit for the LEAF at 100% charge. If you want more range, you need to slow down to around 40 miles per hour. Freeway speeds will get you only 60 miles or so on a full charge. The current LEAF only has 3.3 KW charger so from low battery to full is about six and a half hours. The 2013 LEAF will have a 6.6 KW charger that will cut the charging time in half. The next cheapest thing I have to drive is my CNG Cavalier which I drive when I need more range. The LEAF has worked out well for me as I use it in a urban enviornment and know it's limits. Although I am happy with the LEAF--there are some issues with it that are troubling. I leased mine and would (at this time) advise anyone looking for one to look at some of the very attractive leases being offered right now. You can check out www.mynissanleaf.com for more info

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                  • #10
                    Re: chargers for electric cars

                    I am involved with the working group for the CA PEV Collaborative and the pork you refer to is hardly pork. This is a developing industry. There has been much trial & error along the way developing best practices and models for communities to get PEV ready.

                    A site may need old electrical systems updated, we have to develop training courses for the IBEW to learn how to install and maintain these EVSE's and, of course, we have 2 competing types of chargers fighting for the dominant spot in the market, along with many companies developing and marketing smart chargers that can be programed to only charge during off-peak hours, communicate with the grid and at some future date, allow your car to operate as a stand-by power supply.

                    This is far more involved and complicated than the consumer is aware. I know, I'm in the middle of it all with Clean Cities and the Dept Of Energy, NETL & NREL. So, not so much pork as something we are all familiar with... an, as yet, lack of economy of scale, with the supply side of PEV's, or even the vehicles themselves.

                    On the bright side, there may be grants and incentives available to assist consumers to transition to EV's and obtain home infrastructure. There will be significant maturing of battery tech over the next 3-5 years. Then costs will go down and cost parity for OEM offerings may not seem like such a distant reality.
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_4586_1441434431016_578[/ATTACH]

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                    • #11
                      Re: chargers for electric cars

                      Originally posted by KSneedsCNG View Post
                      Hey Adrian in California, how about giving us a Real World update on your first year owning Nissan Leaf electric car??

                      What has been typical number of miles range on a charge, and how long to recharge battery on 240 volt?? Do you even mess with 120 volt recharging due to long time?

                      As for cost, what is your best guess at Cost Per Mile of just electricity?
                      I agree with siai47's answers, my experience has been pretty similar. My electricity cost is 14 cents/KWH, and I plug in for free at work, so my cost/mile is about half of his. I love driving the car; it is much more fun to drive than my wife's 08 Civic GX. I leased because the battery is an unknown variable to me. I'm glad I did lease as I already lost one capacity bar, which is a 15% loss after 25,000 miles. Yes, I sometimes use 120V charging. It's pretty similar to using a Phill to fuel a Civic GX; it works fine overnight depending on how many miles you drove that day.
                      Adrian

                      Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
                      Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
                      Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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                      • #12
                        Re: chargers for electric cars

                        Great information on the Leaf's economical operation if it's under 4 cents a mile with high cost electricity at 14 or 15 cents per Kw. Lots of area in country have electricity at 8 to 10 cents a Kw so cost per mile would drop down to maybe 3 cents a mile! Episode of This Old House had remodel of Barrington, RI ocean-front house with bunch of solar panels that were costing them 8 cents a Kw, net after state and Federal incentives. Solar panels were manufactured in Dallas, TX and cost dropped in half over last 4 years.

                        Next step is to put large solar panels on buildings near where these EV's park and charge them for free with solar during the day! If no cars are there, then extra juice goes out to the grid.

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                        • #13
                          Re: chargers for electric cars

                          I stuck with Honda and now have 1K miles on our new Fit EV. Much more fun to drive than the Civic GX. Still in the process of getting the 240V 32A connection device (EVSE) A friend had a Mini Cooper Electric, so I'm getting his electronic controlled contactor. Unfortunately, the connector is not SAE J1772, so that connector with cable is EXPENSIVE. From the northern California manufacturer of the equipment, a replacement is $375 + tax and S&H. I'm waiting for 1 now. 1/2 the range of the Civic is not bad, but the cost of fuel is cheap!

                          We charge now with the provided, 120V 12A connector. This would be OK, as the lease limits mileage to 36K in 3 years, which is waaaay too easy to get with the overnight slow charge, but don't drive it to near empty, and stay out till 10PM, and expect to see a full charge by 9am.

                          Cowboy, Most of the costs to install these "Chargers" at the public locations involves getting enough power and the data from the building out to the parking lots where the cars are.
                          Last edited by Darkstarchuck; 09-07-2012, 05:14 PM.
                          Chuck J

                          Who wants to see another 8th Gen Civic, anyway?
                          Addicted to Unique Rides

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                          • #14
                            Re: chargers for electric cars

                            How about we pool resources/knowledge of cngchat members and begin manufacturing EV cables for this SAE J1772 mentioned above? Jobs and ingenuity here in USA!

                            Since an entire electric 220 volt dryer can be bought for $375 which includes all wiring and 5 foot 220 volt plug, surely we could undercut the sky high cost of $375 "proprietary" plug mentioned above.

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                            • #15
                              Re: chargers for electric cars

                              Originally posted by Adrian View Post
                              I agree with siai47's answers, my experience has been pretty similar. My electricity cost is 14 cents/KWH, and I plug in for free at work, so my cost/mile is about half of his. I love driving the car; it is much more fun to drive than my wife's 08 Civic GX. I leased because the battery is an unknown variable to me. I'm glad I did lease as I already lost one capacity bar, which is a 15% loss after 25,000 miles. Yes, I sometimes use 120V charging. It's pretty similar to using a Phill to fuel a Civic GX; it works fine overnight depending on how many miles you drove that day.
                              Update on my Nissan Leaf: After loosing my first capacity bar (15%) at 25k miles, my range continued to decrease, making my commute increasingly stressful. Leaf values also decreased following a class action suit being filed against Nissan for this issue. I was able to get out of the Leaf lease early with a minor cost and switched to leasing a Chevy Volt. So far, I have to say the Volt appears to be extremely well built and even more fun to drive than the Leaf. I am very disappointed with how badly Nissan is screwing up so far in dealing with their early adopters in regard to the battery capacity loss. I can only hope the class action lawsuit helps them change their perspective.
                              Adrian

                              Navy 2008 Civic GX (wife's)
                              Silver 2012 Toyota Prius
                              Grey 2012 Civic Natural Gas (mine)

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