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Testing the limits of 2012 NG

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  • Testing the limits of 2012 NG

    Last week I tested accuracy of DTE twice. First time just to see how far I can stretch my cng knowing that there are quite few working stations around. Second time due to faulty cng station locator in OK using Honda navigation system. My second experience was not very pleasent and completely unintended (9 miles left and no cng station nowhere near Honda Navi system directions). While I tried to see how far I can go, I assumed that I had full tank (I know this is rough estimate) 8 x 0.83 = 6.64 gge and traveled for 306.4 miles with average of 47.3 miles and 15 miles of life left according to DTE. I hit low fuel warning about 25 miles before my destination. Assuming that my gge estimate was relatively correct with my 47.3 mpg I should have total 314 miles indicating that there is no life after DTE indicate 0. I have to admit I am very impressed with DTE indicator in NG after Leaf GOM experience. Any suggestions, comments and corrections?
    2013-03-01 19.51.52.jpg
    Last edited by exLeaf; 03-05-2013, 03:18 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

    When I filled up last night my mpg was 33.5, my range was 20 miles, but I could only fill about 6.25 gallons. I figure you always have a little extra, but I won't run to empty if I can help it.

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    • #3
      Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

      After that particular trip in Moore I put 5.875 gge, which in fact won't say much about cng in the tank after the trip. In Tulsa with 9 miles left on DTE I only put 5.559 gge. OKCNG wonder if you noticed how many fuel level ticks you had before fill up. In my case, both times, I had one tick left. I assume you should have two left considering your mpg. I do not plan to test absolute 0, however my previous experience allowed me to to make right decision in Tulsa after debacle with Honda navi cng locator in Stillwater and Tulsa.

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      • #4
        Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

        I've gone as far as 20 miles with zero bars. From what I've heard, you may get as much as 40 before the lack of fuel pressure shuts down the engine. 300mileclub did a test regarding this, though I can't recall what year civic was used. Due to the seemingly inconsistent nature of how the amount of fuel in the tank is measured and displayed (and the inability to simply measure how much gets replaced), I wouldn't recommend counting on more than 10 miles with zero bars. My own personal policy is to fill up when the estimated range is between 30-40 miles.

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        • #5
          Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

          Andrew wonder if your DTE showed 0 when you drove with 0 bars or you had some miles on your DTE. Reason for starting this topic is that I am thinking about driving from OK to FL. It is challenging and require a bit of planning, but possible. I should decide soon - temp will go up soon, making it more difficult.

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          • #6
            Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

            The range indicator on the iMid display (what exleaf is calling the "DTE") is not a constant indicator. It will vary depending on the miles per GGE the car has achieved over the previous few miles. As I have taken long trips, I have noticed that it will show 200 miles remaining before climbing a long mountain pass, then while climbing the long pass will show 150 miles remaining, and then eventually move back up beyond 200 miles at the end of the coasting phase at the bottom of the other side of the pass. The same happens around town. If I have been on the interstate for ten miles or so, it may show 75 miles remaining, only to drop back down to 40 miles remaining after driving on surface streets for 5 miles or so.

            I really like the readouts from the iMid display, the current mileage display to the right of the speedometer, and the blue/green "runway" lights on both sides of the digital speed readout. I find them very helpful in guiding me to achieve better mileage. The range indicator is a very gross measurement of the way I have driven on the current tank of gas and over the past few miles.

            The word to the wise here is that the range indicator is a good tool to give you a good idea of how many miles you have remaining at your current driving conditions, but don't rely on it too heavily if you are going to exit the freeway to find a station. The dots on the fuel gauge to the left of the speedometer are a much better, if also fuzzy, indicator of fuel remaining.
            _____________________________________
            '12 Blue Mist Metallic Civic Natural Gas; '03 Galapagos Green Civic GX; '07 Alabaster White Civic GX

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            • #7
              Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

              I do not see a need to relay heavily on instrumentation while in urban area because of good number of station around. While driving on the interstate no reason to panic because if range go down while going uphill it will be back while on the other side of the hill. To me changes in NG range are not annoying comparing to the Leaf and will not drop by so many miles by just starting the car. I love green/blue lights and instant mpg meter because they are helpful to stretch miles especially when not much fuel left. There are so many factors affecting amount of the cng in the tank, however IMO it is interesting to know what to expect on the left side of the fuel gauge just in case. It appears that there is some life left even with no dots on fuel gauge.

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              • #8
                Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

                Originally posted by exLeaf View Post
                Andrew wonder if your DTE showed 0 when you drove with 0 bars or you had some miles on your DTE. Reason for starting this topic is that I am thinking about driving from OK to FL. It is challenging and require a bit of planning, but possible. I should decide soon - temp will go up soon, making it more difficult.
                Now that I think about it I don't think I've relied on the DTE very much. Just the miles I had on the trip odometor when the last bar disappeared. And I'd like to correct myself because I think I confused when the low fuel light comes on vs. zero bars (roughly 15-20 mile difference). I'd like to say you have a safe 10 miles on zero bars, but until someone tests the 2012 to see how far it goes before it dies, I would play it safe and assume 20 miles is safe from low fuel light.

                I have in fact gone 10 miles on zero bars, but I may have been lucky.

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                • #9
                  Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

                  Andrew than you very much for clarification that is a good reference point I guess it will be very safe to assume that we will have just few miles after last fuel bar is gone

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                  • #10
                    Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

                    Originally posted by exLeaf View Post
                    average of 47.3 miles and 15 miles of life left according to DTE. [ATTACH=CONFIG]3653[/ATTACH]
                    exleaf, I just bought a '12 civic ngv, do you have any tips on how to achive that great milage? was that Denver to New Orleans, down hill all the way? Do you use the econ switch or is that pretty much useless umless you are using the AC?
                    Thanks

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                    • #11
                      Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

                      Congrats on your new car. I am also new to Civic NG bought 3 mo ago and just 8KM. This particular 306 mile on one tank was Ardmore, OK - Arlington - OKC. I have econ all the time but as you I was told only affect when AC is on. It appear that car is doing a bit better from new due to reduced friction. Highway driving average 60 mph and watching instant mpg meter. Just regular energy saving technique, steady speed, avoid braking and hard acceleration.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Testing the limits of 2012 NG

                        Originally posted by Kuma View Post
                        exleaf, I just bought a '12 civic ngv, do you have any tips on how to achive that great milage? was that Denver to New Orleans, down hill all the way? Do you use the econ switch or is that pretty much useless umless you are using the AC?
                        Thanks
                        Kuma,

                        exleaf's mileage is typical of the 2012 Civic Natural Gas when taking road trips, so long as you either keep your speed down or do a bit of drafting. I have traveled from the Salt Lake area to St. George and back twice in the past four months. The trip is approximately 300 miles each way. I have made each one-way trip on a single tank of fuel each time. There are several mountain passes to be negotiated on the trip. The last time I made the trip, I kept my speed down to about 63 mph and made it to St. George with four bars remaining on my fuel gauge. I had two other people and our luggage with us. Just to experiment, on the way back I traveled the speed limit, which is 75 mph most of the way and 80 mph along a few stretches of the interstate. I still had a couple of bars on the fuel gauge, but the low fuel warning came on. I figure I got close to 50 mpgge driving slowly on the way down and about 45 driving fast on the way back. Five miles per gallon over six and a half gallons is about 33 miles, or about two-thirds of a gge, or at Utah fuel prices about a dollar. So, I determined that I could drive slowly and take an extra 45 minutes and save a dollar in fuel cost or be a big spender and take that dollar to save myself 45 minutes in travel time. If I needed to take a longer trip closer to the edge of the car's fuel range, I would go slower.

                        As for the Econ button, I find that it makes a big difference even when not using the air conditioner. Anyone who wants better gas mileage, needs to practice a few hypermiling techniques, such as nice, easy acceleration and braking early before arriving at an intersection to hit the green light while still rolling.

                        In my experience, driving around suburbia making many short trips lets me get about 32 mpgge. Driving on my 37 mile round-trip commute of mixed suburban (30%) and freeway (70%) driving gets me about 45 mpgge. The weekly combination of the two gets me about 38 mpgge. Throw in a few long trips and I get what you see listed below in my fuelly.com fuel average. I get much better mpgge when the weather is warmer.

                        I hope that you enjoy your new Civic as much as I enjoy mine. Your fuel economy can vary greatly, based both on your driving conditions and on how you drive.
                        _____________________________________
                        '12 Blue Mist Metallic Civic Natural Gas; '03 Galapagos Green Civic GX; '07 Alabaster White Civic GX

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                        • #13
                          This gem found when doing an internet search for hypermiling tips: driving a 30% grade consumes 30X the fuel as level road

                          https://www.quora.com/How-many-feet-...evation-change

                          .

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                          • #14
                            Let s start with a hypothetical 3,000 lb car that has 1,000 lb of passengers, fuel, and beef jerky onboard. Suppose this car is 25 percent efficient at converting heat energy into work (forward motion) and it gets 30 mpg at cruising speed on level ground. This is 0.033 gal/mile.

                            Now the car reaches a 30 degree incline and for every 2 miles clocked on the odometer, 1 mile of elevation change is realized. The potential energy change after 2 miles due to elevation is m*g*deltaH.

                            4,000 lb * 32 ft/s2 * 5280 ft = 6.8E8 poundal ft = 27,139 BTU

                            Now that is a potential energy change, which is sort of like a frictionless or reversible energy change. To convert that into fuel that was actually burned, we divide by the efficiency, 25 percent and then convert that into gallons of gasoline:

                            27,139 BTU / 0.25 = 108,559 BTU burned / 114,000 BTU/gal = 0.95 gallon

                            Add in the linear consumption of 0.033 gal/mil * 2 miles = +0.066 gal for a final answer of 1.02 gallons fuel. And to answer the original question, traveling 1 mile up in our hypothetical car @ 30 degrees consumes (1.02/0.033) = 30.6x more fuel than traveling 1 mile horizontally.
                            _______

                            If you use less than three quarters throttle to get up the hill, and do not touch the brakes coming down the hill. It is probably better to drive over the hill. All the potential energy you stored in altitude, will get returned, on the way down the hill.

                            https://www.quora.com/Is-it-better-f...void-elevation
                            .

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                            • #15
                              Scientists at Argonne s sister national lab, Oak Ridge, tested cars fuel economy at speeds over 50 miles per hour. For each extra 10 mph over, you lose a little over 12 percent of your miles per gallon. That increases as you go faster. Going from 70 to 80 mph costs you 15 percent, not 12.

                              Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-07-proper...leage.html#jCp
                              .

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