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Honda Civic GX - More Economical Than A Nissan Leaf!

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  • #16
    Re: Honda Civic GX - More Economical Than A Nissan Leaf!

    Hopefully we have absorbed natural gas or absorbed hydrogen tanks by then so maybe everyone will be using that

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcIb...e_gdata_player

    This guy makes all his hydrogen for free and compresses it with a fuelmaker

    Hopefully this is the future and with absorbed tank technology maybe we will all be going 500 miles a fill-up with power aquired by the sun

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    • #17
      Both Honda hybrid cars at auction this week at State of Oregon Surplus had lifetime parts/labor expense totals similar to their Honda CNG counterparts. But the Hybrids are several years newer, yet have TWICE THE MILEAGE! Records will have to be examined more closely to see if the Hybrids ever needed brake pads/shoes replaced - another savings.

      JHMFA362X7S012963 2007 Civic Hybrid 217K $7583 over life of car
      JHMFA36287S010886 2007 Civic Hybrid 210K $11565 over life of car

      Some typical maintenance parts/labor totals from the Motorpool for CNG Civics:
      $13,060 over life of car
      $10,756 over life of car
      $7,286 over life of car
      $7,215 over life of car
      $6,016 over life of car
      $5,183 over life of car

      Civic CNG car sales are always being sold off before their tanks expire:

      (Col 1 is years left on tank when sold; 5th column is mileage)
      4 2005 161007 $2998 100K OR 1HGEN26535L000328 Civic GX
      3 2005 161003 $2923 58K OR 1HGEN26555L000329 Civic GX
      3 2005 161007 $3147 103K OR 1HGEN26565L000341 Civic GX
      5 2005 151208 $3197 93K OR 1HGEN26595L000415 Civic GX
      5 2005 150603 $4000 95K OR _________________ Civic GX
      3 2004 160519 $1976 100K OR 1HGEN26544L000076 Civic GX
      2 2004 151008 $3000 90K OR _________________ Civic GX
      4 2004 150930 $3000 93K OR _________________ Civic GX
      4 2004 150928 $3000 67K OR _________________ Civic GX
      3 2003 151207 $2010 93K OR 1HGEN26523L000043 Civic GX
      3 2003 151207 $4455 43K OR 1HGEN26523L000088 Civic GX
      3 2003 151101 $2460 101K OR 1HGEN26503L000042 Civic GX
      3 2003 150924 $3000 38K OR _________________ Civic GX
      1 2002 161003 $1960 86K OR 1HGEN26592L000488 Civic GX
      1 2002 161004 $2650 51K OR 1HGEN26532L000342 Civic GX
      1 2002 160930 $1086 79K OR 1HGEN26572L000344 Civic GX
      0 2002 160905 $2960 52K OR 1HGEN26562L000139 Civic GX
      1 2002 160512 $2856 85K OR 1HGEN26552L000536 Civic GX
      1 2002 160408 $2923 82K OR 1HGEN26572L000134 Civic GX
      1 2002 151007 $1751 120K OR _________________ Civic GX
      3 2002 140515 $5000 75K OR _________________ Civic GX
      0 2001 151210 $2112 45K OR 1HGEN26491L000562 Civic GX
      0 2001 150527 $4000 84K OR _________________ Civic GX
      0 2001 150601 $4000 79K OR _________________ Civic GX
      2 2001 140308 $5000 97K OR _________________ Civic GX
      1 2001 141226 $5000 105K OR _________________ Civic GX
      1 2001 141229 $3000 79K OR _________________ Civic GX
      .

      Comment


      • #18
        Compared to the approximate $4000-$6000 Civic GX CNG tank replacement cost at 15 years, below is a list of the cost of the replacement battery for hybrid Toyota models offered since 2001:

        2001-2003 Toyota Prius (1st generation) - $3,649
        2004-2009 Toyota Prius (2nd generation) - $3,939
        2010-2011 Toyota Prius (3rd generation) - $4.080
        2012-2015 Toyota Prius Liftback - $3,939
        2012-2016 Toyota Prius V - $3,939
        2012-2016 Toyota Prius C - $3,807
        2007-2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892
        2012-2015 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892
        2013-2015 Toyota Avalon Hybrid - $4,892
        2006-2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,198
        2011-2015 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,353

        Each of these prices will be reduced by a $1,350 core credit for the old battery pack being replaced. Labor rates would be over and above the above costs, amounting to 1.3 - 9.3 hours. Hybrids have been seeing 300,000 miles on the original battery module. And the Oregon Motorpool Civic Hybrids have reached 200,000 miles in under ten years of operation without needing a replacement battery.

        Consumer Reports recently tested a 215,000-mile 2003 Prius and found its performance had barely diminished. The only component that had needed replacement was a fan belt, at 127,000 miles.

        http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ent-cost-guide

        .

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        • #19
          For the below 2007 Civic HYBRID (VIN JHMFA36287S010886), it had a total maintenance cost of $11,565 (which includes $3409 worth of parts) over 210,074 miles which comes to 5 cents/mile:

          odometer YYMMDD
          000008 070405 new car
          019181 071226 jump start
          030358 080509 2 tires TOYO ECLIPSE
          055687 090414 2 tires TOYO ECLIPSE
          064839 091001 replace 12V battery
          079230 100420 replace windshield
          087208 100803 replace 12V battery
          129589 120529 replace 4 tires
          169315 131216 replace 4 spark plugs
          169315 131216 replace windshield
          200211 150707 replace 12V battery
          210074 160916 prepare for surplus sale
          Above service items exclude oil changes at 5K intervals, cabin air filters, wiper blades.

          http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auc...ew?auc=1716603

          Compare the above with a 2002 Civic GX (search 1HGEN26562L000139 on cngchat to see detail maintenance listing) having a total maintenance cost of $7001 (which includes $2118 worth of parts) over 52,130 miles which comes to 20 cents/mile.

          The CNG Civics were kept by the Motorpool until the tanks reached a few years before replacement age (15 years) whereas the HYBRIDS were kept in the fleet until they reached 200,000 miles - which is close to when the battery pack requires replacement.

          Toyota sells batteries for the popular 2004-09 Prius for less than $2,200, and replacement battery packs for 2005-11 Honda Civic hybrids are now about $1,700, down from $2,400 in 2009. CNG tank replacement runs $4000 and up.

          Summary:The HYBRID used a couple of windshields and two sets of tires and three 12V batteries in under 10 years of use. No brake jobs. Cost of operation was a quarter of that of the CNG Civic. Honda has stopped production of CNG vehicles and HYBRIDS.

          The State Motorpool mechanic who shared comments about servicing both vehicle types owns and drives an EV.
          .

          Comment


          • #20
            Appreciate the many updates provided on Oregon surplus GX's being made available.

            The cost comparison per mile of the 2007 hybrid with the 2002 GX isn't really apples-to-apples because:
            1. Seems the Oregon fleet isn't (wasn't) using the GX's much at all... the hybrid put on 4x the miles in a much shorter timeframe. This makes sense, as Oregon has little CNG refueling infrastructure so my guess is the GX just ran around Salem and back to base to refuel whereas the hybrid probably traveled all over the state.

            2. The $7k in labor for the GX indicates that someone was charging far too much for the tank inspections (probably the local Honda dealer). With no competition for this service in Oregon, where few NGVs are to be found, this really cut into the economic analysis... especially when looking at things per mile.

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            • #21
              President of a rural Oregon utility says his 2000 Honda Insight has had two battery changes in 16 years and runs as well as ever.
              .

              Comment


              • #22
                The maintenance records of about three dozen of the Oregon State Motorpool vehicles show a parts/labor cost of about 10 cents a mile for the Honda Civics. All are CNG except the two Hybrids on the list:

                cost/mi yr miles$maint_ VIN(last 6)
                .14 2002 079000$10723 000344
                .13 2004 100000$13060 000222
                .13 2004 051000$06518 000052
                .13 2002 052130$07001 000139
                .13 2002 081259$10327 000536
                .12 2003 038048$04746 000073
                .11 2005 100000$10756 000328
                .11 2004 105570$11706 000223
                .11 2004 099435$10877 000150 perfect condition
                .11 2004 058000$06378 000071
                .11 2004 100000$10708 000076
                .10 2004 067000$06559 000054 perfect condition
                .10 2003 043252$04520 000088
                .10 2003 101113$10521 000042
                .10 2002 119282$11835 000136
                .09 2007 122782$10685 029152 HYBRID
                .09 2004 046443$04105 000064
                .09 2005 058000$05183 000329
                .09 2005 101241$08956 000337
                .09 2003 084304$07874 000069
                .09 2003 079811$06875 000081
                .09 2002 082000$07118 000134
                .08 2004 089700$07525 000051
                .08 2004 088167$06749 000146
                .08 2003 053000$04121 000054
                .08 2002 086000$07215 000342
                .07 2005 103000$07286 000341
                .07 2003 093331$06129 000043
                .07 2002 086000$06016 000488
                .05 2007 210074$11565 010886 HYBRID
                .05 2005 092828$04704 000415
                .

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                • #23
                  Bill, Do they have some gasoline non hybrid civics in the fleet to compare life cycle cost ?

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                  • #24
                    Most of the Motorpool passenger cars use gasoline, but no gas Civics. www.oregonsurplus.com has a link to the auction sites they use which sorts to include only their listings. Lots of big pickups, many 4WD, too.

                    The following link shows $0.025/mile for only the parts/labor for a compact. It points out that buying a used car and driving it for decades is a proven way to save money.

                    http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/20...car-ownership/
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Maintenance is not cheap on GX, even at intervals of 10K miles.
                      2010 GX (w/Webasto moonroof, Curt hitch, 3M CS 50% tint, Alpine inew957hd nav rec)

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