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Time to lift the tanks!!

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  • Time to lift the tanks!!

    Ok I have posted on this topic before but need to clarify a couple of things before i go ahead and lift up the tanks to remove the rusted out bed.
    My plan is to lift them about 30 inches straight up. I am using a 800 pound winch and two 900 pound crank stands under a steel beam with straps to support the tanks while they hang above the bed. So, I need to disconnect the tank lines and the electric valves in order to raise the tanks up.
    Unplugging the electric valves is the easy part. Its the disconnecting of the tank lines that i have questions about.
    So with the valves unplugged can i let the pressure off the lines where they connect to the tanks or does it need to be done from under the truck?
    Can someone describe the process or link me to instructions?? as i would not want to mess this up. My thinking is i just slightly crack the line and let the pressure hiss out. How much gas comes out?
    Also i have to dispose of the 2012 tanks but they still have gas in them. Will a disposal company take them away with gas in them or will they need to be vented first??.Problem is i have no place near my garage to vent them and i dont have the proper mast, grounding rod etc to do it properly anyway..In addition i cannot run the truck to use up the fuel in the lines. Suggestions please and thank you

  • #2
    Pictures ?

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    • #3
      Cracking the low-pressure side lines AFTER FIRST REMOVING POWER TO THE TANK VALVES AND SHUTTING OFF THE 1/4 TURN MANUAL VALVE is no biggie as there will be very little gas in there - but be careful anyway (gloves, eye protection, do this outdoors!) because if you can't run fuel out of the lines there will be 100 psi so its not trivial. But on the high pressure side, you really need to vent the gas out of your tanks before disposing of them. Otherwise once they are off the truck someone will have to use the GFI valve removal procedure, which requires a special tool and lots of expertise (the guide for this is in our Safety Forum).

      I see you are in the Toronto area. I recommend you call these two CNG component OEMs in your area to find out who might be able to safely assist with this.

      GFI (they made your tank valves... ask for Tom McIver - let him know I sent you)
      http://www.gficontrolsystems.com/

      Blackstone (ask for Neil - let him know I sent you)
      http://blackstonecng.com/contact/

      Good luck and be safe!
      John

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      • #4
        Thanks John, Good tips and links.
        I am confused about the 1/4 turn manual valve. Where is it on my truck??
        Also if someone could identify the various parts on my tanks in the following pics, that would be very cool. The way it is plumbed doesn't make sense to me but i'm sure there must be a prevailing logic that escapes me.
        In the first pic i have the valve on the rear most tank showing. There are two electrical connectors on the bottom of pic. What are these??
        Second pic shows the high pressure line from the rear most tank to the front tank. You can also see the electrical connector hanging down from the front tank. What is this?? Both tanks have it.
        What i find confusing is how the two things in the first pic can have an effect on the front tank being that they are at the end of the line so to speak. Is this correct plumbing??
        Last pic. This is under the hood and looks like an air valve. What is this??
        I am going to go read that thread on GFI valves in the meantime.



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        • #5
          I am not sure what the connectors go to---pressure transducers? However, the way the GFI valve is plumbed internally makes most of the ports act as a "manifold". Other then the PRD port on the bottom of the valves, the rest connect together. That being said, the interconnecting flexible line between tanks connects all ports on both valves together. Nothing is actually at the end of the line as either tank can supply both valves. The only difference is that tanks can be commonly filled but if one tank's internal valve fails (or is not energized) only one tank can provide fuel. You would notice this as a reduction of range by 1/2 assuming equal sized tanks. One caution is that you can never be sure that the tank is empty on any GFI valve equipped tank as a failure in the internal valve would not provide pressure at any outlet fitting. Never remove a tank valve unless it has been manually opened with a special tool that destroys the valve but could save your life.

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          • #6
            OK, I have gone through the whole gas circuit from the tanks to the filter assembly including from the T fitting to the fill cap.. I do not have a quarter turn valve anywhere that i can see.This seems to conflict with the videos i have watched on de fueling and venting. Thoughts??
            I guess i should be clear. I do not want to remove the valves, just the electrical connections to them.
            I also want to remove the one gas line that goes through the bed of the truck from the tanks.The line between the two tanks can stay in place as i am lifting the whole cradle out as one piece tanks and all.
            Then we gotta move them somewhere to have them vented.

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            • #7
              Also wondering about a new replacement tank. I want a single type 4 if possible. Type 5??? Im hoping i can get one that holds as much as both my type 2 expired tanks. The only issue i see is i will have two left over not used electrical connectors in my stock plumbing circuit and im not sure how to deal with them. I suppose the computer is going to want to see two tanks. Thoughts??

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              • #8
                Originally posted by greenmeanh1 View Post
                In addition i cannot run the truck to use up the fuel in the lines. Suggestions please and thank you
                I'm not understanding why you can't run the truck on cng to empty the tanks.
                Given that you want to buy an unexpired tank I presume the truck must have potential of being operational on cng.
                It seems a lot simpler to run the remaining gas through the engine even if you just let it idle all day.

                Karl

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                • #9
                  I would first have to put the engine etc back together to run the truck. The engine is still in the truck but most of the stuff on top has been removed, R&Red and is bagged on the shelf. The engine and trans is coming out as soon as i get the rad support out for some upgrades and cleaning. So, putting the engine all back together to run the tanks out is not an option at this time. The engine is good however and ran the truck to my shop where it sits now.
                  I really have to get the remainder of the rusted out bed off the truck and the tanks are sitting on top of the bed so i gotta lift the tanks up to do this.
                  So im stuck in a bit of a weird spot.
                  So, with the electrical removed from the valves, can i assume the tank valves are closed and not letting any gas out??

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                  • #10
                    Can you vent the tanks on the low pressure side? You don't need a running engine for that but you need to be outside away from any possible ignition source. You probably have the low pressure line already disconnected from the engine.

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                    • #11
                      No i have not vented the low pressure side either. It is still hooked into the mixer and rails. I didn't want to touch anything CNG related until i know for sure what i am doing. Also not sure if releasing pressure on the low side will de pressure the high side lines. There could be a check valve or something in the regulator that shuts off the high side in the event of drastic pressure loss on the low side. I dont know, so im guessing again.. I would like to find out though prior to loosening hoses.
                      In one of my earlier pics it shows the mixer (i think) that sits behind the intake. There is a air valve on the side of the mixer that could be a bleeder of some sort. I have been unable to get any clarification on this yet.
                      When i put this truck back together there are two items i want my CNG installer to put in. An analog pressure gauge and a manual 1/4 turn valve. Actually i would want two. The other would go on the filler tube line. It makes me uncomfortable knowing 3000 psi is at the gas cap when vehicle is running and that little ball bearing is all that holds it back. If that ball bearing popped out of the filler neck would the tanks automatically shut off?? Seems dangerous, but what do i know.

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                      • #12
                        So,, i have come to some conclusions on how to proceed.
                        The safest legal place to vent my tanks is about 20 blocks away from my garage and with the truck not movable, its not an option. Even if i got the tanks out of the truck i still could not get them out of my garage unless i moved them one at a time. The Ford and the Hummer are in the way. A case of "should have parked nose in". Then the issue of transporting expired tanks with fuel in them any distance, is also a major concern.
                        So, i have decided to burn the gas off using a natural gas stove which i happen to have in the shop!! My friend is going to lend me his variable regulator and set it up for me. My understanding is he will be taking the low pressure side which is about 125 psi and bringing it down to as low as 5 psi to go into the gas stove. We are grounding the regulator to my electric fence outside the garage as its the only good technical ground i have. He says if i'm lucky i will be able to heat the place for quite a while if there is any major fuel left in the tanks. I expect that after ten years of sitting with no leaks the tanks very well may be full. We just don't know. So, a fairly creative solution i think to a problem i never considered having to deal with when i got this truck given to me for free. Seems the previous owner may have known what he was into and priced the truck accordingly.
                        Another thing we solved was how to move the tanks around after we get them off the truck...I'm lifting the whole tank assembly out in one shot so when the whole thing is in the air we are simply going to bolt some HD castors to the tank bracket frame mounting holes. The tanks can roll around on those in the back of my garage until i move the Ford out of the way,,, someday LOL
                        I got the rear axle turning last night after fixing the E brake mechanism under the dash which was stuck on. The backlash is tighter than the T1 Torsens on the Hummer!!.so im pretty happy with that. Could not test input cause its stuck in park with no brakes but im feeling its all good.. So i think the only thing i will need to do on the pumpkin will be a fluid change and a new cover and perhaps some greasing. Can anyone tell me what the electrical connector on the diff (pumpkin) is for??
                        Vids and pics coming soon!!

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                        • #13
                          Got the drivers side of the bed off and noticed a couple things. All my CNG parts have yellow tags on them except for the filler assembly. I am assuming its stock but i dont know. I will add a pic of the assembly. The fill valve seems correct even without the tag but im not sure about the line going from the filler to the frame rail. Line is about 1 foot of flexible hose changing to a hard line that bolts to the top of the frame and then makes a connection inside the frame rail to the main T section. I guess with no tag i will have to change it out to pass a certification? Sorry pics aren't great.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by greenmeanh1; 10-09-2016, 11:35 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Did you get this sorted out? I might be able to send some data your way.

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                            • #15
                              Slow like a snail LOL I get about two months a year to work on this thing. I burned off a lot of gas using my gas stove via a regulator but there is still a ton of gas in the tanks. I had my friends high tek regulator setup for 3 days so i burned off what i could at 5psi..Wasn't much cause i could not leave it unattended so i got about 28 hours of burn time. Key on, the tanks still show near full so i clearly didn't burn off much over that time. My friend said if they are actually full i can cook dinner for a year LOL. Anyway i have decided to keep the tanks as is for now and they will get raised out of the truck with the gas still in them and they can hang over my head for a year while i work on the bed of the truck.

                              Speaking of which i have a awesome flat bed design i have worked out for this project and pretty exited about it. I picked up a pile of 2x2 1/4"box steel to fabricate the cross beams for the new flatbed.The design will make use of the original ABS tank cover. I almost threw it out in the trash as i had something else in mind but so glad i kept it.

                              Drilled out all the spot welds on the rad support so its ready to pop out. I am ditching the AC system so i have a pristine core if anyone needs. Im taking all the pulleys off for R&R, i know one of them squeaks.
                              Glad to be back at it!!.

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