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Curtis
11-29-2007, 06:08 PM
These pdf versions of the bulletin cover rough idle, lost power, bad teeth and acne... as well as what to do about it.:p

peakay
11-29-2007, 06:15 PM
Thanks for posting here Curtis...you saved me the trouble! I hope this helps the NGVic community.

CraziFuzzy
12-03-2007, 03:59 PM
Well, makes me wish I hadn't spent a few hundred dollars on changing out the O2 sensors... mine was stuttering like this, and would give me o2 sensor failures. Changing them out seemed to fix it for a short duration, but it came right back. It isn't every start, but often enough to annoy me, especially since i haven't been getting the power i'm used to either.

peakay
12-03-2007, 05:24 PM
I'm in the same boat. My recommendation would be to clean the injectors asap as i am afraid it may have burned out one of my cats.

turbocohen
12-14-2007, 09:44 PM
Oil contamination tolerance was the #1 issue 17 yrs ago and it still is. There is a replacement injector from Siemens (soon to be Continental) that is close enough to the bosch calibration that manages oil much better. It is used by Opel and daimler in the EU but I am not sure that is the same cal.
good luck, T

MiamiCNG1
12-21-2007, 06:00 PM
Hello, I'm new to the forum I have a 1998 CNG Crown Vic but it's missing the main CNG computer that goes in the front of the car. I bought this from a local police auction, they said the car ran fine but the computer broke. I am in Miami,FL and unfortunetly most people don't even know that CNG cars exist here. (No Parts) I tryed Ford but no luck there, they said it was on backorder I've been waiting for 2 months now.Can anybody Help me?

holtek
01-05-2008, 01:22 PM
From the posted service bulletins, I get the impression that the fuel injectors require some residual oil in the fuel stream to remain happy. That would kind of be a problem if you used a home fueling appliance exclusively since they don't use oil. I use a Fuelmaker phill with my crown vic and civic GX and only rarely get a fast fill since the nearest station is 20 miles away from me!

cngmike
01-05-2008, 08:18 PM
I would guess that you bought your Crown vic on the used market. Most station operators are not to fanatical about oil carry over. So there is probably enough oil in your tanks to cover the the 2 parts per million that is necessary for the injectors.

Techie
07-06-2008, 02:45 AM
From the posted service bulletins, I get the impression that the fuel injectors require some residual oil in the fuel stream to remain happy. That would kind of be a problem if you used a home fueling appliance exclusively since they don't use oil. I use a Fuelmaker phill with my crown vic and civic GX and only rarely get a fast fill since the nearest station is 20 miles away from me!

Have you checked your fuel filter? That should be a good indication if there is any oil in the system. If too much oil is in the system, filter housing will be full. Ford will tell you to drain it. I would say drain some, but leave about 1/4 to 1/8 of level in it. I heard of a few guys adding WD-40 to filter housing but I have never seen it or tried it.

kameron13462
08-01-2008, 11:19 PM
Question to the crowd: The TSB is somewhat nebulous on whether the coalescing filter should be present during the injector fluid operation. It states to fill the bowl 3/4 inch from the top.

So - does that mean to install the coalescing filter, fill the bowl 3/4 inch from the top, reinstall, then run engine?

Or - does that mean fill the bowl 3/4 inch from the top, reinstall without the coalescing filter in place, then run engine?

Please keep in mind this is someone asking a question who wants to conduct the service and has not done it before. ;)

Thanks!

Kameron

CONEBOY
08-02-2008, 01:29 AM
Do not install filter during injector cleaning.

from TSB 03183:

Step 5 "reinstall the filter bowl"... (never says to reinstall the filter)

Step 9 "drain the cng coalescent filter bowl, replace coalescent filter element, drain plug"... (put everything back)

kameron13462
08-02-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the verification, Coneboy. When I conduct the service on my 2003 Crown Victoria, I'll try to remember to take photos to post on cngchat.com for future reference.

- Kameron

Surfdancer
08-05-2008, 07:36 AM
Make sure you get that stuff through the regulator, fittings and lines quickly. When I was working with Ford Engineering on testing this stuff, we found out how aggressive this stuff really is. If left in contact with rubber in the regulator or o-rings in the fittings, they will soften and swell in short order.

Personally, I have not used this cleaner in my dedicated F150. I service mine every 24,000 or 36,000 miles by unplugging the "fuel pump" fuse (to deactivate the solenoids on the tanks), run the truck until the pressure is consumed and the engine stalls, then disconnect the low pressure line from the regulator discharge (there may still be 30 to 40 psi left, so be prepared for a little venting of gas - and check the fitting to make sure the o-ring is still in place).

With the low pressure line hanging down, I let the oil drain out of it for a few minutes.

After that, I button it up and replace the fuse.

Oil gone - no jelly in fuel injectors from oils and heat.

spazntwitch
11-02-2008, 06:25 PM
Champion Motors in Salt Lake on 90th South advised that we need to pay $270 for a fuel injection cleaning and advised it needs to be done every 15,000 miles. Is this a fair price?

Our Ford F250 won't start at all in the cold weather and we are waiting to get the vehicle towed from Fillmore up there.

Lancer Automotive Group
11-02-2008, 07:23 PM
Ask them if the $270 is just for a fuel system flush or do they actually remove the injectors and clean them.

spazntwitch
11-02-2008, 10:01 PM
Ask them if the $270 is just for a fuel system flush or do they actually remove the injectors and clean them.

What would be a normal price range for both services (system flush vs. remove injectors and clean)? We've been out our truck for almost a month now and just need to get it done ASAP.

Deeta
01-07-2009, 11:32 PM
Kameron 13462 et al,

Did you ever do your service on your 03 Crown Vic? I have a 2003 Crown Vic CNG P70 (Extended Chassis) with 45k miles and don't think the filter has ever been changed. Since I am having misfires on #8 I figured that I would start with the filter first since it needs to be done anyway and hope injector cleaner will help before I dig into plugs, coils and injectors. I called SeaFoam today and they said that Sea Foam is safe for a CNG vehicle so I thought I'd put it in the filter bowl and run it through.

I read this and other threads, ordered my Motorcraft Filter #FG-1088 (Amazon for $27.88) and went to install it today. http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/101_0263.jpg

Here is what I encountered:

I jacked up the car and looked for the "skid plate cover" that cng-vic-ut mentions in this thread: http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235

However, my skid plate has the parking brake cable attached to it. http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/2003%20Crown%20Victoria%20CNG/101_0276.jpg

Do I need to remove the cable so I can get access to the filter housing? I also don't see a red shut off valve. http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/2003%20Crown%20Victoria%20CNG/101_0280.jpg

Is there a chance that Ford only used electronic solenoids on the 2003 models? :confused: I even removed the tank cover in the trunk looking for a shut-off and can't find one. I also looked up from underneath following the fuel line back to the tanks. http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/2003%20Crown%20Victoria%20CNG/101_0283.jpg
http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/2003%20Crown%20Victoria%20CNG/101_0282.jpg

I got impatient and slightly cracked open the screw at the bottom of the filter housing ( I know - I risked a lot of CNG escaping), and it stopped once the pressure was released. http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww168/Deeta63/2003%20Crown%20Victoria%20CNG/101_0279.jpg

Any ideas? Do I risk changing the filter without a manual shut-off? Is there one?

Thanks all.

kameron13462
03-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Hi Deeta,

Unfortunately as I found out, Ford elected to "decontent" the manual shut-off valve on the 2003 model. The only way to safely cut-off the high-pressure tanks is to manually turn off the tank valves ON EACH TANK. This makes changing the fuel filter a royal pain. Mine came out sparkly clean after 30K miles, so I don't plan on doing this service again anytime soon, and yes, I did the injector cleaning service as well.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND unplugging fuse #5 in the engine bay to disable the solenoid tank valves and regulator, and crack the bleed screw (as you did). If you have a leaky tank valve, or a valve stuck in the open position, cracking that bleed screw can put you in a VERY, VERY precarious situation.

FYI to anyone doing this service, treat those O-rings with tender loving care. They fracture really easy.

Dutch
04-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Deeta,

" read this and other threads, ordered my Motorcraft Filter #FG-1088 (Amazon for $27.88) and went to install it today. "

When I search for this on Google, I get fuel filters - and a picture of a "normal" little gasoline fuel filter. Could you check the part number for me?

There seems to be one on Amazon now, but it is $42.91 from Troy Ford - with no picture - is that who you ordered from?

Thanks,

Arjen.

NGXV
01-31-2010, 02:48 AM
You can purchase the coalescent filter for the Crown Victoria by clicking on this link (http://cngchat.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-6183.html) Also, you do not need the shut off valve to depressurize the fuel system. When the car is off and the key is out of the ignition, the electronic valves on the end of the tanks remain in the closed position. The only exception to this is if the car has additional non-factory tanks that do not have electronic shut off valves. In this case you would need to manually close down the valves on these additional tanks. Once the car is off and any manual valves are closed, access the filter housing under the vehicle by removing the skid plate. With the skid plate removed the coalescent filter housing is exposed. On the bottom of the lower filter bowl there is a drain plug. Use the appropriate size hex key wrench to slowly loosen the drain plug until you here gas escaping (no more two to three full turns). Oil may begin oozing out, just have a paper or cup ready to catch the oil. If you get a lot of oil, you will definitely want to replace the old coalescent filter with a new one. Wait until the gas stops hissing out (3 min at the most) and the CNG fuel lines will be depressurized. Finish removing the drain plug and then use a crescent wrench, by attaching it to the flats on the bottom of the filter bowl, to remove the filter bowl and expose the coalescent filter. Pull down on the filter to remove it from the male tube attached to the upper housing. Clean out the filter bowl and threads. Replace the o-ring seated into the grove at the top of the lower filter bowl. Thread the new drain plug and o-ring into the bottom of the lower filter bowl. Make sure when you are venting the gas to perform this procedure in a well ventilated area. Also, make sure you have a filter with a new drain plug and o-ring, because the pressure will likely break the o-ring as you are venting the CNG. Install the new filter onto the male post of the upper filter housing and rethread the lower filter bowl onto the upper filter housing. Do not try to over tighten the drain plug or lower bowl when reassembling everything. Due to the flex in the filter assembly, you will only be able to get it so tight so don’t force it. When you perform any drain and fill procedures with either the Ford PM5 injector cleaner or isopropyl alcohol, leave the old filter in place so no dirt, grime or anything can get into the pressure regulator or the injectors. Better safe than sorry, besides the cleaner passes through the filter just fine. The reason they say to only fill the bowl full is so the solvent does not spill everywhere when the filter displaces the liquid. Because the PM5 is so aggressive, follow it up with an isopropyl alcohol flush to get the PM5 residue out of the system. Usually two PM5 flushes performed according to the ford bulletin procedure, followed by an isopropyl alcohol flush will take care of the rough idle, dying and lean code problems for the dedicated vehicles. The PM5 acts as a solvent to break down and clean out the carry over compressor oil that has solidified inside the injectors and fuel lines. The heat of the engine turns the oil into a semi solid vanish like deposit. When replacing the filter I recommend using only the Parker CLS112-6 grade 6 filter because it catches 99.97% of this carry over oil. The grade 10 filter, while slightly cheaper, does not do as good of job catching the carry over compressor oil suspended in the CNG as an aerosol. The CNG filtration systems in the Fords were under engineered. The diagrams from Parker for natural gas vehicles shows using two coalescent filters; one before the regulator and one after. This is how the Honda Civic GX's are set up since they were redesign in 2001. Before this they had a single CLS112-6 filter and housing just like on the Crown Victoria, located towards the rear of the vehicle. On the newer models they added a low pressure filter after the regulator up by the front of the vehicle. When I change these filters on my civics, I always find it interesting that there is more oil in the low pressure filter canister (I cut them open to check) than in the high pressure filter bowl.

Interceptor
05-14-2010, 10:00 AM
does anyoone know the part number for a 1998 cng crown vic filler neck?

hctan
03-26-2011, 09:38 PM
Two questions:
1. The instruction on the PM-5 can says to dilute it with gasoline (2 pints of gasoline for 8 oz of PM-5). It also says "Do not inject undiluted PM-5 into the engine". Do I need to do this for my CNG Crown Vic?
2. What kind of alcohol should I use and where can I buy it? I understand that I need very high concentration alcohol.
Thanks for your help.

seeker407
10-05-2011, 01:33 PM
Sorry to revive this thread... but I feel I need to do this on my '99 F250 (bifuel)..

Can anyone point me to a video to do this? A guy who inspected my tanks said you just are supposed to disconnect the power from the tanks, and then run the engine with rubbing alcohol somewhere... any ideas waht he was tlaking about?

james

ukxpat
10-11-2011, 06:53 PM
Thanks so much for posing these TSBs! I'm having the same problem with mine so hopefully the shop will find this very valuable. Thanks again!!!

Noah
12-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Thank you so much for posting this information! I have been so frustrated trying to figure out how to fix my lean bank codes misfire codes and oxingen sensor codes. I followed your directions and E 350 runs great now and the check engine light is off now, than you so much,
Noah

terryb99
05-28-2012, 04:49 PM
Perfect find!

I have just purchased a 2000 Crown Vic, factory CNG. The seller said it idled a bit rough when cold, and then ran great. It should be delivered in about a week.

Looks like I have found the fix!

I just purchased a Motorcraft filter from eBay.

fiodax
07-23-2012, 11:11 AM
My 2000 crown vic was also running rough at low RPM, the other day I was driving down the road and it just died on me in the middle of the road and would not restart. After some looking i found that it had blown the 20A #1 fuse in the power distribution box that is labeled to control the fuel pump. I believe it controls the fuel solenoid valves in the CNG version. Could this have been causing my rough idle as well? I followed the steps posted here about cleaning out the filter prior to all of this, but it was not dirty at all.

If I replace the fuse it immediately blows it again. Maybe the wire running back to the fuel tanks is grounding out somewhere, but could bad solenoids also cause this problem?