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View Full Version : CNG Semi Tractors - Dual Fuel?



BobBaldwin
10-27-2009, 07:11 PM
Are there any companies that convert semi tractors to be CNG and diesel? If so, what kind of range do they have? Is one diesel tank replaced with with CNG tanks? Company names? Websites?

clay
10-28-2009, 10:54 AM
^Bob,
Yes I talked to a driver at Questar late one night. He was driving a Questar semi and said that his 4 large tanks, that were mounted between his cab and headache rack verticaly, gave him about 40% more miles per fillup using about a 30% CNG too Diesel fuel mix. You could contact Questar and talk to them about what and how?

Have a great day!:)

BobBaldwin
10-28-2009, 04:20 PM
Big Red,

Excellent! However, I guess what I was looking for was how to get a fleet of semis converted when only partial infrastructure exists and you have to run on diesel just like a duel fuel car would. The goal would be to run 100% on CNG if you have it available but if a company would agree to convert a fleet and was to accept this for delivery around a state, they would need assurance that they would not get stranded and I would think it would need to be dual fuel until infrastructure finally gets in place.

cngsolutions
10-28-2009, 04:30 PM
Some help with terminology:

"Dual-fuel" is a term applied to a vehicle that simultaneously uses diesel and CNG. The CNG is the main fuel (95%). The diesel is injected along with 5% CNG as an ignition source.

You are looking for vehicles that can run on either CNG or diesel. The industry term for that is "bi-fuel". As far as I know, it is not possible to switch back and forth between diesel and CNG. There are no bi-fuel diesel/CNG vehicles on the road. It is possible to switch between CNG and gasoline, and there are existing bi-fuel vehicles.

cowboy
10-28-2009, 04:39 PM
some of the big trucks are running dual fuel I have been playing with a 450 hp detroit I am feading cng to the air stream after the inter cooler when I run out of cng it gos back to just diesel and 450 horse I think I am makeing about 550 or 600 horses with cng but have not been on a dyno I do have to watch the pyro as it builds heat quick when running cng mix but Iam working on that the diesel is the spark plug so it cant run on strait cng but it can run on only diesel

clay
10-28-2009, 08:02 PM
Talk to the state. KSL did an article about how sysco got state and fed money to do their conversions?:cool:

CNG MOTORS
11-04-2009, 07:06 PM
I have been running a "Dual Fuel" International truck with a Detroit in it for almost two years now. Savings are found only from the fact that CNG is cheaper than Diesel. At lower blend ratios (under 35%) you will realize this savings. At larger blends say 80/20 (CNG/diesel) the savings begin to deminish. Like it's gasoline counterparts the CNG energy utilzed by the diesel engine is about the same as on diesel. That is 1 GGE of CNG will equal 1 gallon of diesel at lower blends. At higher blends of CNG the MPG's deminish.

There is a company out of Cali, can't remember the name that converts Diesel engines to Gas engines to then burn 100% CNG. These are large engines. Their current customer base is mostly out of Thailand. The two issues with running 100% CNG in semi's are the same issues they have always been (the achiles heels of the industry) Tank size/range and infrastructure. Now with my 42 GGE worth of tanks I have my blend turned down so that I can go from Phoenix to Houston to Pensacolo to Columbia SC and back while burning CNG the entire time.

BobBaldwin
11-04-2009, 07:42 PM
CNG Motors,

How is your CNG configured? Did you replace a diesel tank or just add a CNG tank somewhere else.

Bob

younkin
11-05-2009, 07:17 AM
Omnitek has a dedicated CNG system they put on Diesel trucks. They put new pistons, coils, sparkplugs etc. Check out their website. They convert outside the US due to regulations. If you want more info call me, I know the CEO. Jim
younkincng.com
younkin@gmail.com
801 427 2284

Dual-Fuel
11-05-2009, 09:49 AM
If you happen to have older CAT C12 eninges (or C10, or 3126's) in your fleet, Clean Air Power can offere you a true dual-fuel system. Older means 2004 or earlier.
Runs on ~15% diesel and 85% natual gas. If you run out of gas the engine switches to 100% diesel on the fly.
Fuel storage is always a challenge, but we typically can find room for a LNG tank. LNG is the best solution for heavy duty applications due to the fuel density and getting enough fuel onboard for a 400-500 miles between refuels.
CNG will work, but it is usually more difficult to find enough space to fit enough CNG tanks.
Check out the website at cleanirpower.com.
Most of the current work has been European or Australia but our roots and engineering office is still in the San Diego area. Some day we hope to be back in the current US market.

Regards,
Marc

larrycng
11-05-2009, 04:25 PM
Marc;

Were you the guys that had the 3176 Cat Dual fuel at Sun line transit in the Coachella Valley, way back under another name?? It was used as a mobile fueling station.

Larrycng

Dual-Fuel
11-06-2009, 11:21 AM
Yes I believe that could have been ours, it would have been one of the really early ones as the 3176's were the predecessor for the C-10. The company was Clean Air Parnters back then and worked mostly with the CAT dealers. So it is likely that the customer only saw the CAT dealer as part of the conversion.
There are about 250 C10's in daily service in Los Angeles picking up garbage another 300 or more in Mexico City running and another 100+ in Australian road trains. There are some more spread out around the world, but those are the highlights.

Marc

bkhitech
07-01-2010, 08:07 AM
I know this is an older post but I just joined and only saw it today. I had been living over in Thailand for the past 14 years and have been around all these diesel conversions that you guys are talking about. The conversions over there normally run on 60%CNG on the big trucks, the diesel engine still needs diesel fuel to generate the spark if no spark plugs are installed. The Gov over there supports NGV use and there are filling stations everywhere!! Small diesel pickups are the vehicle of choice over there generally now 2.5- 3liter turbo intercooled running with a Diel conversion or similar. A conversion kit installed over there maybe 2,500-3000 bucks complete with tanks. They may not have US DOT cylinders but the whole time I was over there I only heard of one cylinder failure and turned out that was during filling at a station and I heard that it was a very low quality import basically I guess not kind of cert at all. The large trucks the fleet owners like the conversions due to the fact it is almost impossible for the drivers to siphon of the fuel and sell which is common practice there with a large percentage of drivers.

cripple_rooster
12-01-2010, 03:59 AM
They may not have US DOT cylinders but the whole time I was over there I only heard of one cylinder failure and turned out that was during filling at a station and I heard that it was a very low quality import basically I guess not kind of cert at all.

Maybe could be even a LPG home bottle for stoves used as CNG tank. It's not unusual to find accidents with irregular LPG setups exploding when the owners try to fill'em with CNG where I live.

NOGO
12-04-2010, 01:28 PM
Some help with terminology:

"Dual-fuel" is a term applied to a vehicle that simultaneously uses diesel and CNG. The CNG is the main fuel (95%). The diesel is injected along with 5% CNG as an ignition source.

You are looking for vehicles that can run on either CNG or diesel. The industry term for that is "bi-fuel". As far as I know, it is not possible to switch back and forth between diesel and CNG. There are no bi-fuel diesel/CNG vehicles on the road. It is possible to switch between CNG and gasoline, and there are existing bi-fuel vehicles.

This is not true. Dual fuel vehicles can run on either fuel or a percentage of each in varying quantities. The 15 liter Westport GX engine is the only product using a fixed rate at 95% gas 5% diesel, and is EPA certified as a dedivcated gas engine.


If you happen to have older CAT C12 eninges (or C10, or 3126's) in your fleet, Clean Air Power can offere you a true dual-fuel system. Older means 2004 or earlier.
Runs on ~15% diesel and 85% natual gas. If you run out of gas the engine switches to 100% diesel on the fly.
Fuel storage is always a challenge, but we typically can find room for a LNG tank. LNG is the best solution for heavy duty applications due to the fuel density and getting enough fuel onboard for a 400-500 miles between refuels.
CNG will work, but it is usually more difficult to find enough space to fit enough CNG tanks.
Check out the website at cleanirpower.com.
Most of the current work has been European or Australia but our roots and engineering office is still in the San Diego area. Some day we hope to be back in the current US market.

Regards,
Marc

The CAP system has also been applied to other engine platforms, and I think it is the best dual fuel solution for HD engines. In the real world the gas usage is only 60% because the engine does not make enough power for HD use with a higher gas percentage.