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View Full Version : Aluminum Gallium Alloy creates Hydrogen



Curtis
06-04-2008, 07:53 PM
This link will take you to a very interesting presentation on the titled subject. Be warned, you need high speed access.

Basically, the aluminum is the oxidizer (80%) and the gallium (20%) is to prevent spontaneous oxidation (aluminum oxide) untill water is added.

The result is Brown's, Gas in copious amounts, and a waste product that is 100% recycleable and reusable. Cool idea, and it sounds more plausable to me than the saltwater hydrogen generator that you can build in the kitchen with common off the shelf hardware store/Radio Shack parts.

http://www.hydrogentoday.us/

Jerry M. Woodall
Making of Hydrogen from Aluminum


National Medal of Technology Laureate

Distinguished Professor (https://engineering.purdue.edu/ECE/People/profile?resource_id=3058) of
School of Electrical and Computer Engineering,
Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN 47907

Email: woodall@ecn.purdue.edu (woodall@ecn.purdue.edu)
Phone: 765-494-3479

lindy ottinger
12-16-2008, 12:45 AM
thanks this was very interesting i had a man come in to to store looking to buy gallium for hydrogen production :)

Curtis
12-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Were you able to sell him any? Where exactly would one buy Gallium? And, lastly, what kind of store do you have that someone would ask you if you had Gallium?

Amfuel
12-16-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't know where one wouldget Gallium, thank the lord.

Browns gas is an impure hydrogen. It is the oxygen and hydrogen split apart but still in the same space. Very, Very unstable and explosive. Can you say- BOMB? Don't mess with browns gas.

rtry9a
12-17-2008, 07:45 AM
I don't know where one wouldget Gallium, thank the lord.

Browns gas is an impure hydrogen. It is the oxygen and hydrogen split apart but still in the same space. Very, Very unstable and explosive. Can you say- BOMB? Don't mess with browns gas.



HHO can be explosive, but it is not any more unstable than gasoline- it still needs an energetic spark or exposure to flame to ignite. Many combustible materials are explosive in a "gaseous" mixture, including sugar, flour, many powdered metals, and most liquid fuels, like gasoline.

IMHO, Gasoline is probably more dangerous because it packs more energy/unit, it is much more plentiful, it is a volatile liquid in its basic state, and it is often misused/ badly stored. HHO dissipates quickly.

rtry9a
12-17-2008, 08:43 AM
I found one gallium source on the internet, a 1 kg bottle cost $1300- probably lab grade. Industrial prices around $600/kg, mostly produced in China and Russia produced, as a byproduct of aluminum production. Widely used in the semiconductor industry.

Im not clear on one thing- the gallium is supposed to keep the aluminum oxide film from forming on the aluminum, supposedly at the aluminum/gallium alloy and water interface.

The reaction of aluminum and water to form aluminum oxide and release H2 is the whole purpose of this experiment. On one hand, we want to promote the reaction, on the other, we want to prevent the reaction???

I might be easier to just use powdered aluminum instead of a molten alloy, let the oxide form, and filter it out for recycle.

cowboy
12-17-2008, 08:59 PM
the alum ox forms a pertectve coating on the alum and stops the reaction the gallium stops this from happening is the I understood it so the reaction will go on cowboy

Curtis
12-17-2008, 09:45 PM
The major factor in Hydrogen production has always been the cost of producing it. The methods currently in use require tremendous amounts of energy, mostly electricity.

This seems like a very cost effective way to produce it, given that the materials are basically 100% recoverable, recyclable, and reusable. Separation of the O2 should be simple enough, as well as cost effective.

As a layman, this seems like a no-brainer, like adsorption technology, so what am I missing here?

cowboy
12-17-2008, 10:16 PM
The major factor in Hydrogen production has always been the cost of producing it. The methods currently in use require tremendous amounts of energy, mostly electricity.

This seems like a very cost effective way to produce it, given that the materials are basically 100% recoverable, recyclable, and reusable. Separation of the O2 should be simple enough, as well as cost effective.

As a layman, this seems like a no-brainer, like adsorption technology, so what am I missing here? what we all want is a free ride and if you want to ride you have to have the car fair same gos for energy you cant make it or destroy it only change it from fuel to heat to motion of your car than back to heat with your brakes than dump heat in to surounding air where it is absorbed and lost for our use but still there as warmer air if you read all the way through the paper the re claimming alum ox was done near power plants this is just a storage device of energy not creating energy from nothing but a way of storing the power from the power plant just my take on it but I think I am close cowboy

minimade
12-20-2008, 05:01 PM
below is another interesting, and wonderful if it works technology. It was on CNN Business, and this link is actually a university study.

the company is called blacklight power and lots of esteemed scientists seem to say poppycock, but somehow it may be supported by some other quantum physists?

....but beyond my paygrade!

derek


http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/BLPIndependentReport.pdf

Luke
12-29-2008, 10:06 AM
Electrolysis (using electrical power with submerged electrodes) of water is one of the least efficient ways to generate hydrogen. Nuclear reactions are the most efficient.

One thing to realize is that every time one form of energy is converted into another, there are losses (search 2nd law of thermodynamics or entropy online). One thing I don't understand is how some people believe that you can get something for nothing, for example: one common method people were using to increase fuel economy is to place a bottle of water with electrodes in it under their hood and then connect their electrodes to the car's battery. The bottle would then be hooked into the throttle body and subsequently into the combustion process. The logic was that the electricity from the car's battery would split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. This mixture would displace some gasoline and, in turn, increase mileage. In reality, the amount of electricity required to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen (this does not include losses to heat, etc. inherent to the splitting process) is the same as the amount of energy released when combusted. This combustion process is 25% efficient, at best, in its conversion to mechanical energy. This mechanical energy them must turn an alternator to recharge the battery (~80% efficient). The only way to increase fuel economy is to capture some of the other losses and transfer them back to mechanical energy (like hybrids do with recursive breaking, etc.)